Another mass shooting

[dot]

then work on campaign finance laws. the object here isn't to find out why you can't get anything done, the object is to find a place to start that works. lots of jobs we build, we have to start by building detours and bridges that have nothing to do with the finished product, we just have to build them to move the traffic out of the way so the real road can be built. you have to do what you have to do.

Different verse, same song. Campaign finance reform arguably has even wider opposition than gun control. Democrat reps by and large are at least going to support gun control, while Republican reps by and large are going to universally oppose it. Campaign finance is even more murky because both sides have their troughs to feed from that they're gonna protect. But if you wanna argue to dismantle the gun lobby specifically, then let's talk, push it forward.

[Antknot]

Re: Red Flag Laws, I don’t think that the red flag gun laws as implemented are valid or fair. How would you like to be going through a divorce and have your spouse claimed that you were crazy or had threatened to shoot them when you hadn’t.? How would you like a neighbor that’s pissed off at you because your dog crapped in your lawn reporting you for a red flag law? There’s too much chance for abuse

I bet you think seatbelts and fire alarms are unnecessary too.

Fuck discomfort when people are getting executed on a weekly basis.

Seatbelts and fire extinguishers are good things. Especially when are used properly.

Does anyone know if the shooting locations in Maine were gun free zones or not?

It was at a bar. What difference does that make?

If it was a “gun free zone“ then a law abiding Armed citizen would not be there to stop him.

[dot]

If it was a “gun free zone“ didn’t make the law abiding Armed citizen would not be there to stop him.

Did you have a stroke mid-post?

[Animal]

fine by me then. declare certain places gun free zones. i really couldn't care less about that. just don't expect it to accomplish anything.

Very much not the point because you are not the arbiter of these things. The people you elect who are then bought and paid for by the gun lobby are who put a stop to the things that even we agree on. In case you forgot, this is regarding:

I honestly don't know. Trying to figure out gun laws is not my thing and I don't know a heck of a lot about gun laws. But I know that every negotiation is possible. Everyone has something they will bargain. Even the people that have something that isn't for sale can be bought out. That's just a fact.

So, if people really wanted to solve this or at least start making progress, they would figure out some of those things. Instead of asking for the whole thing or starting at a point that everyone knows no one will agree to.

If you have ever been in mediation, they first get the two sides to lay out there best and worst offers and then they start working toward the middle ground. I always hear people bitching but I never see much being done.

The people who keep blocking the things even we agree need to be done do not budge. They're given their orders along with check after check. Their starting point is the same as their ending point. Status quo.

then work on campaign finance laws. the object here isn't to find out why you can't get anything done, the object is to find a place to start that works. lots of jobs we build, we have to start by building detours and bridges that have nothing to do with the finished product, we just have to build them to move the traffic out of the way so the real road can be built. you have to do what you have to do.

We'll start in your state, is that ok with you?

if that's what you think is your best approach. Although I know this is just one of your smart ass remarks.

[Animal]

then work on campaign finance laws. the object here isn't to find out why you can't get anything done, the object is to find a place to start that works. lots of jobs we build, we have to start by building detours and bridges that have nothing to do with the finished product, we just have to build them to move the traffic out of the way so the real road can be built. you have to do what you have to do.

Different verse, same song. Campaign finance reform arguably has even wider opposition than gun control. Democrat reps by and large are at least going to support gun control, while Republican reps by and large are going to universally oppose it. Campaign finance is even more murky because both sides have their troughs to feed from that they're gonna protect. But if you wanna argue to dismantle the gun lobby specifically, then let's talk, push it forward.

then start there. dismantle the gun lobby.

[Animal]

I'm wondering where they are going to find the dead body of the Maine shooter.

[Antknot]

If it was a “gun free zone“ didn’t make the law abiding Armed citizen would not be there to stop him.

Did you have a stroke mid-post?

Not a stroke, just half asleep. I’ve gone back and corrected it.

[Animal]

Re: Red Flag Laws, I don’t think that the red flag gun laws as implemented are valid or fair. How would you like to be going through a divorce and have your spouse claimed that you were crazy or had threatened to shoot them when you hadn’t.? How would you like a neighbor that’s pissed off at you because your dog crapped in your lawn reporting you for a red flag law? There’s too much chance for abuse

I bet you think seatbelts and fire alarms are unnecessary too.

Fuck discomfort when people are getting executed on a weekly basis.

Seatbelts and fire extinguishers are good things. Especially when are used properly.

Does anyone know if the shooting locations in Maine were gun free zones or not?

It was at a bar. What difference does that make?

If it was a “gun free zone“ then a law abiding Armed citizen would not be there to stop him.

[saltydog]

Yeah, the "good guy with a gun" mentality fails on every level when COPS themselves refuse to engage with people using military grade weapons of destruction.

[Animal]

Yeah, the "good guy with a gun" mentality fails on every level when COPS themselves refuse to engage with people using military grade weapons of destruction.

with negotiating skills like this, i'm surprised you haven't made more headway in gun legislation.

[saltydog]

Yeah, the "good guy with a gun" mentality fails on every level when COPS themselves refuse to engage with people using military grade weapons of destruction.

with negotiating skills like this, i'm surprised you haven't made more headway in gun legislation.

Here's my solution restart the weapons ban from 1994? under Clinton.

It worked.

[Antknot]

Yeah, the "good guy with a gun" mentality fails on every level when COPS themselves refuse to engage with people using military grade weapons of destruction.

with negotiating skills like this, i'm surprised you haven't made more headway in gun legislation.

Here's my solution restart the weapons ban from 1994? under Clinton.

It worked.

Give me a wild assed guess about the number Of legal guns used in Chicago on any weekend.

[stonedmegman]

Re: Red Flag Laws, I don’t think that the red flag gun laws as implemented are valid or fair. How would you like to be going through a divorce and have your spouse claimed that you were crazy or had threatened to shoot them when you hadn’t.? How would you like a neighbor that’s pissed off at you because your dog crapped in your lawn reporting you for a red flag law? There’s too much chance for abuse

I bet you think seatbelts and fire alarms are unnecessary too.

Fuck discomfort when people are getting executed on a weekly basis.

Seatbelts and fire extinguishers are good things. Especially when are used properly.

Does anyone know if the shooting locations in Maine were gun free zones or not?

It was at a bar. What difference does that make?

Actually it started in a bowling alley.

[saltydog]

Re: Red Flag Laws, I don’t think that the red flag gun laws as implemented are valid or fair. How would you like to be going through a divorce and have your spouse claimed that you were crazy or had threatened to shoot them when you hadn’t.? How would you like a neighbor that’s pissed off at you because your dog crapped in your lawn reporting you for a red flag law? There’s too much chance for abuse

I bet you think seatbelts and fire alarms are unnecessary too.

Fuck discomfort when people are getting executed on a weekly basis.

Seatbelts and fire extinguishers are good things. Especially when are used properly.

Does anyone know if the shooting locations in Maine were gun free zones or not?

It was at a bar. What difference does that make?

Actually it started in a bowling alley.

I'm sure families of the victims find that comforting.

[saltydog]

Yeah, the "good guy with a gun" mentality fails on every level when COPS themselves refuse to engage with people using military grade weapons of destruction.

with negotiating skills like this, i'm surprised you haven't made more headway in gun legislation.

Here's my solution restart the weapons ban from 1994? under Clinton.

It worked.

Give me a wild assed guess about the number Of legal guns used in Chicago on any weekend.

Gun violence is inevitable?

Explain how this doesn't happen anywhere else on the globe, but almost entirely in the US.

[Antknot]

Yeah, the "good guy with a gun" mentality fails on every level when COPS themselves refuse to engage with people using military grade weapons of destruction.

with negotiating skills like this, i'm surprised you haven't made more headway in gun legislation.

Here's my solution restart the weapons ban from 1994? under Clinton.

It worked.

Give me a wild assed guess about the number Of legal guns used in Chicago on any weekend.

Gun violence is inevitable?

Explain how this doesn't happen anywhere else on the globe, but almost entirely in the US.

Chicago is a glaring example of how gun control laws don’t work.

There is no one size fits all solution to the problem. It’s a cultural problem that will take decades to correct if that’s even possible.

[saltydog]

Yeah, the "good guy with a gun" mentality fails on every level when COPS themselves refuse to engage with people using military grade weapons of destruction.

with negotiating skills like this, i'm surprised you haven't made more headway in gun legislation.

Here's my solution restart the weapons ban from 1994? under Clinton.

It worked.

Give me a wild assed guess about the number Of legal guns used in Chicago on any weekend.

Gun violence is inevitable?

Explain how this doesn't happen anywhere else on the globe, but almost entirely in the US.

Chicago is a glaring example of how gun control laws don’t work.

There is no one size fits all solution to the problem. It’s a cultural problem that will take decades to correct if that’s even possible.

Correct.

Gun culture.

[dot]

Chicago is a glaring example of how gun control laws don’t work.

There is no one size fits all solution to the problem. It’s a cultural problem that will take decades to correct if that’s even possible.

You may need to get more sleep, because your logic fails. Don't forget that the assault weapons ban from 94 to 04 worked. Ten years of data showed a decline across the country despite the, at the time, deadliest school shooting in Columbine inside that ten years. But you'd have us do nothing because since then, the ban was allowed to expire and bought and paid for politicians made sure nothing was put in its place afterwards. That has allowed a near immediate increase in gun violence from then to today, and that is including Chicago. And so because your guys made sure nothing protected the country in its wake, you are now pointing to the lack of gun control laws as proof that gun control laws don't work.

In actuality, there is a one size fits all solution to the problem. It was tried before and worked. Disinformation for the sake of maintaining the murderous status quo makes you a special kind of asshole.

[Reservoir Dog]

with negotiating skills like this, i'm surprised you haven't made more headway in gun legislation.

Here's my solution restart the weapons ban from 1994? under Clinton.

It worked.

Give me a wild assed guess about the number Of legal guns used in Chicago on any weekend.

Gun violence is inevitable?

Explain how this doesn't happen anywhere else on the globe, but almost entirely in the US.

Chicago is a glaring example of how gun control laws don’t work.

There is no one size fits all solution to the problem. It’s a cultural problem that will take decades to correct if that’s even possible.

Correct.

Gun culture.

Righties wanted a culture of guns.

They got a culture of guns.

Now they blame everyone and everything, except themselves, for the culture of guns that they created.

[stonedmegman]

America’s unique, enduring gun problem, explained

The factors that lead to tragedies like the Lewiston shooting are deeply ingrained in US politics, culture, and law.

At least 18 people have been killed and more than a dozen injured in a mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine, the northern state’s second-largest city.

The shooter wasn’t immediately apprehended and appears to have opened fire at two locations on Wednesday evening: a bowling alley and a bar. State and local law enforcement asked residents of Lewiston and the surrounding area to shelter in place as officials worked to find the shooter. Schools and many businesses in the area have been shuttered.

The shooter, whose picture has been shared as part of the search effort, is believed to be a 40-year-old white man who worked as a firearms teacher and a US Army reservist. He is facing eight counts of murder so far, according to Maine state police.

The Lewiston shooting was one of several hundred mass shootings this year; and it follows a number of other mass shootings this week, including in Colorado, Chicago, and Louisiana. This kind of violence is unique to the US and should not be normalized.

No other high-income country has suffered such a high death toll from gun violence. Every day, 120 Americans die at the end of a gun, including suicides and homicides, an average of 43,375 per year. According to the latest available analysis of data from 2015 to 2019, the US gun homicide rate was 26 times that of other high-income countries; its gun suicide rate was nearly 12 times higher. Mass shootings, defined as attacks in which at least four people are injured or killed excluding the shooter, have been on the rise since 2015, peaking at 686 incidents in 2021. There have been 565 mass shootings in the US in 2023 as of late October, including the Lewiston shooting, and at the current pace, the US is set to eclipse the 2021 record this year.

Despite that sheer carnage, however, the political debate over how to ensure that guns don’t fall into the hands of people who may hurt themselves and others has long proved intractable. Last year, Congress reached a deal on limited gun reforms for the first time in nearly 30 years in the wake of a shooting at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas — the deadliest school shooting since 2012.

But those narrow reforms clearly haven’t stopped America’s gun violence epidemic. The US’s expansive view of civilian gun ownership has been so ingrained in politics, in culture, and in the law since the nation’s founding that there’s no telling how many more people will die before federal lawmakers take further action. In that absence, many red states have loosened their gun laws over the last few years, rather than making it harder to obtain a gun.

“America is unique in that guns have always been present, there is wide civilian ownership, and the government hasn’t claimed more of a monopoly on them,” said David Yamane, a professor at Wake Forest University who studies American gun culture.

The US has a lot of guns, and more guns mean more gun deaths

It’s hard to estimate the number of privately owned guns in America since there is no countrywide database where people register whether they own guns, there is a thriving black market for them in the absence of strong federal gun trafficking laws, and people can manufacture their own guns with DIY kits or 3D printers. The gun lobby has also vehemently opposed federal legislation to track gun sales and establish a national handgun registry.

One estimate from the Small Arms Survey, a Swiss-based research project, found that there were approximately 390 million guns in circulation in the US in 2018, or about 120.5 firearms per 100 residents. That number has likely climbed in the years since, given that one in five households purchased a gun during the pandemic, though the 2018 estimate remains the most recent available. There has also been a significant increase in the number of guns manufactured and imported in the years since. But even without accounting for that increase, US gun ownership is still well above any other country: Yemen, which has the world’s second-highest level of gun ownership, has only 52.8 guns per 100 residents; in Iceland, it’s 31.7.
https://www.vox.com/23142734/lewiston-m ... s-shooting

[peterosehaircut]

Any reduction in gun violence during the "assault weapons ban" was not due to the law. Not a single semi automatic rifle was actually banned.
As a matter of fact more AR15s were produced during the decade the ban was in effect than the 30 years prior. It only banned certain cosmetic features.

[Biker]

You know, enough is enough. This isnt the kind of world I want my children living in

[dot]

Any reduction in gun violence during the "assault weapons ban" was not due to the law. Not a single semi automatic rifle was actually banned.
As a matter of fact more AR15s were produced during the decade the ban was in effect than the 30 years prior. It only banned certain cosmetic features.

The "assault weapons ban" is not as simple as its popularized name, nor is it as simple as your disinformation attempt.

The Act prohibited the manufacture, transfer, or possession of "semiautomatic assault weapons," as defined by the Act. "Weapons banned were identified either by specific make or model (including copies or duplicates thereof, in any caliber), or by specific characteristics that slightly varied according to whether the weapon was a pistol, rifle, or shotgun". The Act also prohibited the manufacture of "large capacity ammunition feeding devices" (LCAFDs) except for sale to government, law enforcement or military, though magazines made before the effective date ("pre-ban" magazines) were legal to possess & transfer.

You're welcome to dispute that it did not do any of those things via sourcing and facts, but not just rattling off from the gut denials because you are defensive over being part of the problem.

[Antknot]

https://crimeresearch.org/2023/07/is-th ... ng-deaths/

[Antknot]

http://www.scholink.org/ojs/index.php/e ... 31026/7689