Cold Cases

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QillerDaemon
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Re: Cold Cases

#26

Post by QillerDaemon » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:18 pm

disco.moon wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:49 pm

Should polygraphs even be a thing anymore? I never like it when a suspect is like "sure, I've got nothing to hide" and then they get scrutinized even more because of blood pressure or heart rate showed them to be "deceptive". And people who falsely admit to murders just to fuck with police, what douchebags. Considering the circumstances with the Osprey family, I wonder if police and family at this point would just conclude that Hickok and Smith did it.
No, polygraphs shouldn't be allowed. They're more of a lie than anything. A polygraph is only as effective as the belief on the parts of both the examiner and the examined that the exam can actually detect deceit. There are notorious ways to cheat a polygraph exam, and there are many ways perfectly innocent people get tricked during the exam. True story: I've had two polygraph exams done in my life, and I sadly failed both of them, and badly! The first was for a job in a record store when I was 18, and the examiner kidded with me afterwards that I even lied about my name and age. He just said he'd show the results as passing to the store. I didn't take that job, it just didn't site right with me about the whole deal.
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Re: Cold Cases

#27

Post by Evil.Fkn.Mean,Nasty » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:37 pm

There was a great A&E doc about Jon Bennet.

*Spoiler Alert*

Basically they concluded that the older jealous son hit her on the head with a flashlight after a fight and the parents did the cover up so they wouldnt lose both kids. Pretty convincing. Enough that the older brother sued them.

We have a similar flashlight in our house. 18in long. D batteries. We call it the "Jon Bennet".

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Re: Cold Cases

#28

Post by disco.moon » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:10 pm

QillerDaemon wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:18 pm
disco.moon wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:49 pm

Should polygraphs even be a thing anymore? I never like it when a suspect is like "sure, I've got nothing to hide" and then they get scrutinized even more because of blood pressure or heart rate showed them to be "deceptive". And people who falsely admit to murders just to fuck with police, what douchebags. Considering the circumstances with the Osprey family, I wonder if police and family at this point would just conclude that Hickok and Smith did it.
No, polygraphs shouldn't be allowed. They're more of a lie than anything. A polygraph is only as effective as the belief on the parts of both the examiner and the examined that the exam can actually detect deceit. There are notorious ways to cheat a polygraph exam, and there are many ways perfectly innocent people get tricked during the exam. True story: I've had two polygraph exams done in my life, and I sadly failed both of them, and badly! The first was for a job in a record store when I was 18, and the examiner kidded with me afterwards that I even lied about my name and age. He just said he'd show the results as passing to the store. I didn't take that job, it just didn't site right with me about the whole deal.
More people should just refuse. Either way the police are going to be suspicious whether one fails or denies the damn thing.

A polygraph for a record store job? Like, what were the questions? "Name all professions of Steve Miller"?. I wouldn't go near one. I have such physical reactions to things already; stressful, nervous, excited, happy, all feelings change my blood pressure and heart rate to such a degree, I'd fail on the most simple questions I'm sure.

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Re: Cold Cases

#29

Post by disco.moon » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:12 pm

Evil.Fkn.Mean,Nasty wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:37 pm
There was a great A&E doc about Jon Bennet.

*Spoiler Alert*

Basically they concluded that the older jealous son hit her on the head with a flashlight after a fight and the parents did the cover up so they wouldnt lose both kids. Pretty convincing. Enough that the older brother sued them.

We have a similar flashlight in our house. 18in long. D batteries. We call it the "Jon Bennet".
I mean, I guess I could see that scenario, but wouldn't others speak up to attest to his jealousy? Like at least an aunt or neighbor. I didn't know he sued the parents! If they as a family did it together, they are fucking really good secret keepers. The "JonBenet" lol.

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Re: Cold Cases

#30

Post by Evil.Fkn.Mean,Nasty » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:54 pm

disco.moon wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:12 pm
Evil.Fkn.Mean,Nasty wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:37 pm
There was a great A&E doc about Jon Bennet.

*Spoiler Alert*

Basically they concluded that the older jealous son hit her on the head with a flashlight after a fight and the parents did the cover up so they wouldnt lose both kids. Pretty convincing. Enough that the older brother sued them.

We have a similar flashlight in our house. 18in long. D batteries. We call it the "Jon Bennet".
I mean, I guess I could see that scenario, but wouldn't others speak up to attest to his jealousy? Like at least an aunt or neighbor. I didn't know he sued the parents! If they as a family did it together, they are fucking really good secret keepers. The "JonBenet" lol.



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Re: Cold Cases

#31

Post by QillerDaemon » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:05 pm

disco.moon wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:10 pm

More people should just refuse. Either way the police are going to be suspicious whether one fails or denies the damn thing.

A polygraph for a record store job? Like, what were the questions? "Name all professions of Steve Miller"?. I wouldn't go near one. I have such physical reactions to things already; stressful, nervous, excited, happy, all feelings change my blood pressure and heart rate to such a degree, I'd fail on the most simple questions I'm sure.
It was for a stocking job at the old Cactus Records in Houston in '79. It was required for employment per management, no way around it. *And* I had to pay the $50 for the exam. Texas a few years later only permitted polygraph exams for high security jobs, not for regular jobs like a stocking job. The questions were relatively generic, if I remember right. "Have you ever stolen from a job?" "Have you been dishonest with your supervisor?" The examiner had already noticed how nervous I was, and chuckled after the exam, telling me from the results I was probably being deceitful about my name and age. Doing exams like this was his basic bread and butter, but he didn't like seeing people denied jobs just because of bad exam results like this.

When it comes to cops and being investigated at their precinct, you are in *their* territory and have all the control. It's never friendly, and it's never safe for you to be there without proper legal representation. The cops may try to frame it as "don't you trust us?", but they are entitled to lie if it will further the investigation. *You* cannot lie to them, but they can tell you anything truthful or not if it will get you to open up in the direction they want the interview to go. Sure, agree to a polygraph, but have a lawyer there with you while it happens.
If you can't be a good example, you can still serve as a horrible warning.

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Re: Cold Cases

#32

Post by disco.moon » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:16 pm

QillerDaemon wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:05 pm
disco.moon wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:10 pm

More people should just refuse. Either way the police are going to be suspicious whether one fails or denies the damn thing.

A polygraph for a record store job? Like, what were the questions? "Name all professions of Steve Miller"?. I wouldn't go near one. I have such physical reactions to things already; stressful, nervous, excited, happy, all feelings change my blood pressure and heart rate to such a degree, I'd fail on the most simple questions I'm sure.
It was for a stocking job at the old Cactus Records in Houston in '79. It was required for employment per management, no way around it. *And* I had to pay the $50 for the exam. Texas a few years later only permitted polygraph exams for high security jobs, not for regular jobs like a stocking job. The questions were relatively generic, if I remember right. "Have you ever stolen from a job?" "Have you been dishonest with your supervisor?" The examiner had already noticed how nervous I was, and chuckled after the exam, telling me from the results I was probably being deceitful about my name and age. Doing exams like this was his basic bread and butter, but he didn't like seeing people denied jobs just because of bad exam results like this.

When it comes to cops and being investigated at their precinct, you are in *their* territory and have all the control. It's never friendly, and it's never safe for you to be there without proper legal representation. The cops may try to frame it as "don't you trust us?", but they are entitled to lie if it will further the investigation. *You* cannot lie to them, but they can tell you anything truthful or not if it will get you to open up in the direction they want the interview to go. Sure, agree to a polygraph, but have a lawyer there with you while it happens.
Don't I fucking know it. I caught a pretty serious charge many moons ago and was completely lied to. I learned a lot from that experience and a lot from attorneys throughout the years. It's over now, but it was a scary time.

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Re: Cold Cases

#33

Post by disco.moon » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:17 pm

Evil.Fkn.Mean,Nasty wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:54 pm
disco.moon wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:12 pm
Evil.Fkn.Mean,Nasty wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:37 pm
There was a great A&E doc about Jon Bennet.

*Spoiler Alert*

Basically they concluded that the older jealous son hit her on the head with a flashlight after a fight and the parents did the cover up so they wouldnt lose both kids. Pretty convincing. Enough that the older brother sued them.

We have a similar flashlight in our house. 18in long. D batteries. We call it the "Jon Bennet".
I mean, I guess I could see that scenario, but wouldn't others speak up to attest to his jealousy? Like at least an aunt or neighbor. I didn't know he sued the parents! If they as a family did it together, they are fucking really good secret keepers. The "JonBenet" lol.


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Re: Cold Cases

#34

Post by CaptQuint » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:19 pm

You cannot be forced into taking a polygraph, and in no way will it benefit you. Don't talk to law enforcement at all, do not let them into your house or vehicle.
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Re: Cold Cases

#35

Post by CaptQuint » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:21 pm

Police Owe Nothing To Man Whose Home They Blew Up, Appeals Court Says


An armed shoplifting suspect in Colorado barricaded himself in a stranger's suburban Denver home in June 2015. In an attempt to force the suspect out, law enforcement blew up walls with explosives, fired tear gas and drove a military-style armored vehicle through the property's doors.

After an hours-long siege, the home was left with shredded walls and blown-out windows. In some parts of the interior, the wood framing was exposed amid a mountain of debris.

A federal appeals court in Denver ruled this week that the homeowner, who had no connection to the suspect, isn't entitled to be compensated, because the police were acting to preserve the safety of the public.

"Under no circumstances in this country should the government be able to blow up your house and render a family homeless," Leo Lech, the house's owner, told NPR. "This family was thrown out into the street without any recourse."

Lawyers for Lech argued that the police's destruction of his home was a violation of the Constitution's Takings Clause, which says private property cannot be taken for public use without "just compensation." But the problem with that argument, the appeals court ruled, is that courts have long held that police cannot be on the hook for property damage caused in the process of trying to make an arrest.

"As unfair as it may seem, the Takings Clause simply does not entitle all aggrieved owners to recompense," the appeals court wrote.

The suspect in the case, who was wanted in connection with shoplifting, was taken into custody after a 19-hour standoff. More than 100 officers from agencies around the Denver area responded to the incident.

Authorities say the suspect stole two belts and a shirt from a Walmart. After he left the store, police say, he broke into Lech's house for protection and was firing at officers with a handgun. Eventually, SWAT officers entered the home and apprehended him.

Left in the wake of the arrest, though, was a Greenwood Village, Colo., home that looked as if it were collateral damage in a war zone.

"The interior of the Lech Home was a mass of debris and destroyed belongings from the projectiles launched into the home by the Defendants. Chemical munitions or other projectiles were stuck in the walls. The Lech Home was completely uninhabitable and its condition posed a danger to anyone entering the home," one of Lech's attorneys, David Williams, wrote in a federal lawsuit filed in August 2016.


The back side of Leo Lech's former home, which Lech razed and rebuilt after police damaged the property when a gunman barricade himself in the home.
Kathryn Scott Osler/Denver Post via Getty Images
At the time of the episode, Lech was renting the home to his son, John Lech, who lived there with his girlfriend, her 9-year-old son and two dogs. The boy, who was home alone when the gunman entered, was able to get out of the house safely. The family members all moved in with Lech until they found another place to stay.

The city of Greenwood Village condemned Lech's home. It was completely razed to a vacant lot, and Lech said he has spent around $400,000 rebuilding it — not to mention the $28,000 in legal fees he also incurred as he pursued compensation from the city and police.

City officials paid Lech's family $5,000 in compensation, a sum that Lech's lawyer deemed "unconscionable."


Leo Lech stands on the street in front of his home in 2015. A fence had been placed around the home's perimeter after the police destroyed the property in a standoff with a gunman who broke into Lech's house.
Kathryn Scott Osler/Denver Post via Getty Images
"There needs to be a line drawn for what police departments can do and what they need to do to compensate citizens for this kind of damage," Lech said. "I didn't want to sue anyone for millions. I just wanted fair market value for my house."

Melissa Gallegos, a spokeswoman for the city of Greenwood Village, sent NPR a statement saying the damage done to the house was necessary to "get the gunman out without any loss of life" and referring to the standoff as a police emergency.

"What Mr. Lech also failed to tell you was that he chose on his own to demolish the house rather than repair it, repour the foundation that wasn't damaged and built a bigger better house where the old one stood," said Gallegos. In her message, she included a photograph of Lech's new home.


Leo Lech's rebuilt home after police destroyed his former house in a standoff with a gunman in 2015.
Provided by the city of Greenwood Village, Colo.
If Lech has his way, his legal battle is not over. Another lawyer for Lech, Rachel Maxam, said she hopes the U.S. Supreme Court will agree to review the case.

"If there was ever a case they would hear, this would be it. There are a lot of interesting issues involved," Maxam told NPR.

The case turns on legal technicalities about whether police acting in their official capacity can ever be seen as exerting eminent domain — when the government seizes private property for public use.

The appeals court, affirming the lower court, ruled that police attempting to make an arrest cannot be considered eminent domain, even when a property is severely damaged.

In fact, the court stated, when police are performing their public safety duties, they cannot be "burdened with the condition" that they pay for property damage.

The court noted that if police officers "willfully or wantonly" destroy property, they can be sued in a civil tort case. Lech tried to pursue that legal argument in Colorado state court, but he was not successful.

Lech said he will leave the legal quibbling to the attorneys, but he thinks his case illustrates a principle that should not generate much controversy.

"Whether you call it eminent domain or whatever, you can't be blowing up people's houses," he said.

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/30/77478861 ... court-says
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Re: Cold Cases

#36

Post by disco.moon » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:21 pm

CaptQuint wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:19 pm
You cannot be forced into taking a polygraph, and in no way will it benefit you. Don't talk to law enforcement at all, do not let them into your house or vehicle.
Well I know that now lol. The day I got in trouble, I could have told them to fuck off. But, I was alone and intimidated. I was always afraid of them, now I'm still intimidated, but I know so much more. You know the story, but I don't wanna say it here ;)

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Re: Cold Cases

#37

Post by CaptQuint » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:24 pm

disco.moon wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:21 pm
CaptQuint wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:19 pm
You cannot be forced into taking a polygraph, and in no way will it benefit you. Don't talk to law enforcement at all, do not let them into your house or vehicle.
Well I know that now lol. The day I got in trouble, I could have told them to fuck off. But, I was alone and intimidated. I was always afraid of them, now I'm still intimidated, but I know so much more. You know the story, but I don't wanna say it here ;)
I do know the story, and that comment was not directed at you. It just cannot be said enough. I know you know what to do now.
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Re: Cold Cases

#38

Post by disco.moon » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:26 pm

CaptQuint wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:24 pm
disco.moon wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:21 pm
CaptQuint wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:19 pm
You cannot be forced into taking a polygraph, and in no way will it benefit you. Don't talk to law enforcement at all, do not let them into your house or vehicle.
Well I know that now lol. The day I got in trouble, I could have told them to fuck off. But, I was alone and intimidated. I was always afraid of them, now I'm still intimidated, but I know so much more. You know the story, but I don't wanna say it here ;)
I do know the story, and that comment was not directed at you. It just cannot be said enough. I know you know what to do now.
:drinkingcheers:

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Re: Cold Cases

#39

Post by CaptQuint » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:46 pm

Now I'm watching Live PD, god these people are stupid
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Re: Cold Cases

#40

Post by Wut » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:40 pm

CaptQuint wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:46 pm
Now I'm watching Live PD, god these people are stupid
Anytime I watch any cop show I want to smack the people on the show. The cops are not your friends.

Are you guilty? Get a lawyer.

Are you innocent? Get a lawyer.
wut?

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Re: Cold Cases

#41

Post by Wut » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:40 pm

And shut the fuck up too.
wut?

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Re: Cold Cases

#42

Post by CaptQuint » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:42 pm

Wut wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:40 pm
And shut the fuck up too.
Don't leave a big bag of cocaine in plain view on the center console. YOU'RE ON COKE HOW LAZY ARE YOU?
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Re: Cold Cases

#43

Post by Wut » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:43 pm

CaptQuint wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:42 pm
Wut wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:40 pm
And shut the fuck up too.
Don't leave a big bag of cocaine in plain view on the center console. YOU'RE ON COKE HOW LAZY ARE YOU?
I was always much more careful than that with my coke.
wut?

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Re: Cold Cases

#44

Post by CaptQuint » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:44 pm

Wut wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:40 pm
CaptQuint wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:46 pm
Now I'm watching Live PD, god these people are stupid
Anytime I watch any cop show I want to smack the people on the show. The cops are not your friends.

Are you guilty? Get a lawyer.

Are you innocent? Get a lawyer.
Did you ever watch the Colonel Russel Williams interrogation?
Animal wrote:
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Re: Cold Cases

#45

Post by disco.moon » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:45 pm

White drugs are bad mmkay?

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Re: Cold Cases

#46

Post by Wut » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 pm

CaptQuint wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:44 pm
Wut wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:40 pm
CaptQuint wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:46 pm
Now I'm watching Live PD, god these people are stupid
Anytime I watch any cop show I want to smack the people on the show. The cops are not your friends.

Are you guilty? Get a lawyer.

Are you innocent? Get a lawyer.
Did you ever watch the Colonel Russel Williams interrogation?
No, never heard of it, what was the story?

I’ve read about long haul interrogations where people just give up and admit to a crime when it wasn’t them though, it’s not uncommon.
wut?

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Re: Cold Cases

#47

Post by disco.moon » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:47 pm

Wut wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:46 pm
CaptQuint wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:44 pm
Wut wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:40 pm
CaptQuint wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:46 pm
Now I'm watching Live PD, god these people are stupid
Anytime I watch any cop show I want to smack the people on the show. The cops are not your friends.

Are you guilty? Get a lawyer.

Are you innocent? Get a lawyer.
Did you ever watch the Colonel Russel Williams interrogation?
No, never heard of it, what was the story?

I’ve read about long haul interrogations where people just give up and admit to a crime when it wasn’t them though, it’s not uncommon.
There are so many cases where that happens. They get some poor fool in there for 26 hours and then convince him he's the killer. Fucked up.

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Re: Cold Cases

#48

Post by Wut » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:48 pm

disco.moon wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:45 pm
White drugs are bad mmkay?
Coke was great, I liked it a lot when I was young.
wut?

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Re: Cold Cases

#49

Post by disco.moon » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:48 pm

CaptQuint wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:46 pm
Now I'm watching Live PD, god these people are stupid
Where do you watch this?

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Re: Cold Cases

#50

Post by CaptQuint » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:50 pm

disco.moon wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:48 pm
CaptQuint wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:46 pm
Now I'm watching Live PD, god these people are stupid
Where do you watch this?
Youtube A&E channel is free
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