Mueller fucks trump

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QillerDaemon
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Re: Mueller fucks trump

#26

Post by QillerDaemon »

Wut wrote: Thu May 30, 2019 3:00 am Aside from the fact that no court was involved, that's also inherently untrue from a legal perspective.
Isn't being "innocent" of a crime legally different from being "not guilty" of those charges?
Seems like Trump is getting a bit of very horrible legal advice from some notably powerful legal minds.
If you can't be a good example, you can still serve as a horrible warning.
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Wut
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Re: Mueller fucks trump

#27

Post by Wut »

QillerDaemon wrote: Thu May 30, 2019 12:48 pm
Wut wrote: Thu May 30, 2019 3:00 am Aside from the fact that no court was involved, that's also inherently untrue from a legal perspective.
Isn't being "innocent" of a crime legally different from being "not guilty" of those charges?
Seems like Trump is getting a bit of very horrible legal advice from some notably powerful legal minds.
I read once that at least one country, Sweden or one of the northern countries, had the options of guilty, not guilty, or innocent, acknowledging the possibility of clear innocence on the part of the accused.

That's not the case here. If the evidence meets and exceeds the threshold, you are guilty. If not, you are merely not guilty because the case wasn't adequately made.

OJ is a great example. He was found not guilty in the criminal trial; it wasn't a determination that he was innocent. He was then found civilly liable because the evidence of responsibility was determined to exceed the threshold in the civil case where it was not in the criminal case. The difference is beyond a reasonable doubt standard compared to a more likely than not standard for a civil trial. Had the criminal case determination been actual innocence, the civil case could not have gone on.
wut?
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Cassandros
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Re: Mueller fucks trump

#28

Post by Cassandros »

There is no such thing in the US court system as "innocent".

You are either guilty or not guilty.

To be deemed "innocent" means you have an alibi or something that prevents you from going to court in the first place.
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Re: Mueller fucks trump

#29

Post by VinceBordenIII »

QillerDaemon wrote: Thu May 30, 2019 12:48 pm
Wut wrote: Thu May 30, 2019 3:00 am Aside from the fact that no court was involved, that's also inherently untrue from a legal perspective.
Isn't being "innocent" of a crime legally different from being "not guilty" of those charges?
Seems like Trump is getting a bit of very horrible legal advice from some notably powerful legal minds.
We don’t find people innocent, though.
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Re: Mueller fucks trump

#30

Post by Wut »

Cassandros wrote: Thu May 30, 2019 1:22 pm There is no such thing in the US court system as "innocent".

You are either guilty or not guilty.

To be deemed "innocent" means you have an alibi or something that prevents you from going to court in the first place.
I'd say that not being taken to court isn't a determination of innocence, its only a refrain from charging.

The only time you might see an actual determination of actual innocence is where an appeals court wants to make innocence absolutely clear in an exceptionally egregious prosecution.
wut?
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Re: Mueller fucks trump

#31

Post by beagleboy »

With more Democrats getting on the impeachment bandwagon, maybe they can overcome Pelosi's leadership. For some reason, she really insists on supporting Trump.
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Re: Mueller fucks trump

#32

Post by Wut »

I don't see it at all as support for Trump, it's a strategic avoidance of the potential risks to Democrats of the impeachment process.
wut?
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Re: Mueller fucks trump

#33

Post by QillerDaemon »

Wut wrote: Thu May 30, 2019 1:10 pm
OJ is a great example. He was found not guilty in the criminal trial; it wasn't a determination that he was innocent. He was then found civilly liable because the evidence of responsibility was determined to exceed the threshold in the civil case where it was not in the criminal case. The difference is beyond a reasonable doubt standard compared to a more likely than not standard for a civil trial. Had the criminal case determination been actual innocence, the civil case could not have gone on.
Yea, I was also thinking about Casey Anthony's trial. In the court of the public, she was definitely guilty of 1st degree murder. But during the actual trial, the prosecution's evidence came out as really flimsy, and so the jury based on that evidence found her not guilty. But not innocent. Some of the jurors have stated they felt the state's case was horrible for a 1st degreee murder charge, but would have easily found her guilty on a 2nd degree murder charge. *That* evidence was there.

But I kind of agree with Pelosi on bringing Trump up to impeachment. It worked with Nixon and Clinton, because people in general were pretty tired of their shit (and yea I know Nixon wasn't actually impeached, still came darn close). This is a weird time, with a substantial part of the country seemingly able to continue to support Trump almost completely, despite a fairly miserable record in office. I work with two of those supporters, one is simply so convinced this is all a "libtard" conspiracy and Trump has "achomplished" more than is ever reported. What, he can't say, but "we should all be solidly behind Trump to MAGA, blah blah..." Impeachment will probably backfire on the Democrats and hard. He probably should be, but really just isn't a great idea in this current political environment.

I have no skin in this game, although I dislike Trump a lot, and don't regard Hillary much better, I'm an independent voter of the Green Party.
If you can't be a good example, you can still serve as a horrible warning.
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Re: Mueller fucks trump

#34

Post by beagleboy »

Foreign governments are manipulating our elections? Absolutely shocking.

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VinceBordenIII
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Re: Mueller fucks trump

#35

Post by VinceBordenIII »

beagleboy wrote: Thu May 30, 2019 1:41 pm With more Democrats getting on the impeachment bandwagon, maybe they can overcome Pelosi's leadership. For some reason, she really insists on supporting Trump.
Yeah, what a cunt! We need to see Trump impeached. Drag that shit on, baby!
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Re: Mueller fucks trump

#36

Post by beagleboy »

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 ... tions-says

Professor who has correctly predicted 9 presidential elections says Trump will win in 2020 unless Democrats impeach.


And yet, Nancy does nothing.
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Re: Mueller fucks trump

#37

Post by FSchmertz »

Wut wrote: Thu May 30, 2019 1:58 pm I don't see it at all as support for Trump, it's a strategic avoidance of the potential risks to Democrats of the impeachment process.
Impeachment by the House is a waste of time, because the Senate is Republican and will never convict.

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