Moving to private healthcare systems

For all the MAGAt Trumpeteers and Lie-brul commies to post their wearisome screeds.
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necronomous
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Moving to private healthcare systems

#1

Post by necronomous » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:40 pm


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Stapes
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#2

Post by Stapes » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:09 pm

Awww. More right wing socialism paranoia dressed up as news. The fact is the people in those countries wouldn't trade their healthcare system for a U.S. version under any circumstances.

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necronomous
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#3

Post by necronomous » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:10 pm

Stapes wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:09 pm
Awww. More right wing socialism paranoia dressed up as news. The fact is the people in those countries wouldn't trade their healthcare system for a U.S. version under any circumstances.
Whooosh

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Stapes
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#4

Post by Stapes » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:32 pm

Biker wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:21 pm
Stapes wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:09 pm
Awww. More right wing socialism paranoia dressed up as news. The fact is the people in those countries wouldn't trade their healthcare system for a U.S. version under any circumstances.
Yet they are doing just that. Weird
No they are not.

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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#5

Post by VinceBordenIII » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:56 pm

Expansion of medicare to cover all citizens is the way to go.
Private health care will still have a place, as medicare can't and won't try to cover all the things wealthier Americans expect.
We'll be using a lot more nurses, NP's and PA's, not to mention foreign trained doctors.
There'll be lots of TV stories about how "I didn't get my <X> and it's not Faaaaaiiiiirrrr!"

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Charliesheen
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#6

Post by Charliesheen » Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:32 pm

The market is the solution. Trumps billing transparency plan is going to blow the lid off’n everything.

You do remember him mentioning that during the sotu, right?

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AnalHamster
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#7

Post by AnalHamster » Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:28 pm

Biker wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:03 pm
Stapes wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:32 pm
Biker wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:21 pm
Stapes wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:09 pm
Awww. More right wing socialism paranoia dressed up as news. The fact is the people in those countries wouldn't trade their healthcare system for a U.S. version under any circumstances.
Yet they are doing just that. Weird
No they are not.
Those nations are expanding private coverage, meaning there is a market for care outside the public services.
You mean care supplementing the public services, which cover everyone cradle to grave at a fraction of the cost that the US pays. Rich folk want private rooms and shorter wait times, not to abolish public healthcare, which is simply objectively better.

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FSchmertz
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#8

Post by FSchmertz » Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:28 pm

AnalHamster wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:28 pm
Biker wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:03 pm
Stapes wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:32 pm
Biker wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:21 pm
Stapes wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:09 pm
Awww. More right wing socialism paranoia dressed up as news. The fact is the people in those countries wouldn't trade their healthcare system for a U.S. version under any circumstances.
Yet they are doing just that. Weird
No they are not.
Those nations are expanding private coverage, meaning there is a market for care outside the public services.
You mean care supplementing the public services, which cover everyone cradle to grave at a fraction of the cost that the US pays. Rich folk want private rooms and shorter wait times, not to abolish public healthcare, which is simply objectively better.
People here in the U.S. seem confused that the British can also chose to get Cadillac care if they wish (or can afford) to pay extra for it. In other words, they can pay to stay outside of your public healthcare, if they wish.

Sort of like a first-class private insurance plan in the U.S., except we have no public option if we can't afford such a plan (except maybe Medicare).

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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#9

Post by Charliesheen » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:06 pm

True. If you can’t pay extra for US style healthcare, you get filthy hospitals and 6 month delays on what the NHS says is elective; your pain or disabilities be damned.

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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#10

Post by FSchmertz » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:36 pm

Charliesheen wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:06 pm
True. If you can’t pay extra for US style healthcare, you get filthy hospitals and 6 month delays on what the NHS says is elective; your pain or disabilities be damned.
No, you often don't get any healthcare at all. You may have to "elect" to die from treatable issues.

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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#11

Post by FSchmertz » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:49 am

Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:47 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:36 pm
Charliesheen wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:06 pm
True. If you can’t pay extra for US style healthcare, you get filthy hospitals and 6 month delays on what the NHS says is elective; your pain or disabilities be damned.
No, you often don't get any healthcare at all. You may have to "elect" to die from treatable issues.
Nope, US healthcare law states that hospitals cannot refuse treatment.
:lol:

You'll die miserably regardless

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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#12

Post by FSchmertz » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:10 am

Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:51 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:49 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:47 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:36 pm
Charliesheen wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:06 pm
True. If you can’t pay extra for US style healthcare, you get filthy hospitals and 6 month delays on what the NHS says is elective; your pain or disabilities be damned.
No, you often don't get any healthcare at all. You may have to "elect" to die from treatable issues.
Nope, US healthcare law states that hospitals cannot refuse treatment.
:lol:

You'll die miserably regardless
You claimed that a patient would be denied care when that isnt true at all. Above the fray guys usually know that
You don't think they'd have it better chance of receiving real healthcare via someplace like the UK?

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Wut
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#13

Post by Wut » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:14 am

Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:47 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:36 pm
Charliesheen wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:06 pm
True. If you can’t pay extra for US style healthcare, you get filthy hospitals and 6 month delays on what the NHS says is elective; your pain or disabilities be damned.
No, you often don't get any healthcare at all. You may have to "elect" to die from treatable issues.
Nope, US healthcare law states that hospitals cannot refuse treatment.
Isn't that just acute emergency care?

You're not going to show up weekly for free radiation treatments or get a new kidney just because you need one.
wut?

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Wut
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#14

Post by Wut » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:17 am

Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:15 am
Wut wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:14 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:47 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:36 pm
Charliesheen wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:06 pm
True. If you can’t pay extra for US style healthcare, you get filthy hospitals and 6 month delays on what the NHS says is elective; your pain or disabilities be damned.
No, you often don't get any healthcare at all. You may have to "elect" to die from treatable issues.
Nope, US healthcare law states that hospitals cannot refuse treatment.
Isn't that just acute emergency care?

You're not going to show up weekly for free radiation treatments or get a new kidney just because you need one.
No, treatment facilities cannot turn away patients based on ability to pay.
Sorry, I think you're wrong about that.
wut?

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FSchmertz
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#15

Post by FSchmertz » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:18 am

Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:12 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:10 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:51 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:49 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:47 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:36 pm
No, you often don't get any healthcare at all. You may have to "elect" to die from treatable issues.
Nope, US healthcare law states that hospitals cannot refuse treatment.
:lol:

You'll die miserably regardless
You claimed that a patient would be denied care when that isnt true at all. Above the fray guys usually know that
You don't think they'd have it better chance of receiving real healthcare via someplace like the UK?
Why would I think that?
Because any healthcare debate eventually turns on some kind of nonsense regarding waiting times, death panels etc. (just scroll up to some of CS's posts) from the other side, without addressing adequate care for everyone who needs it, and any real alternative plan ala Chump's and the Rethugs imaginary "Really Awesome Health Plan" that'll exist as soon as they get rid of Obamacare (which really isn't that good either, btw).

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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#16

Post by Stapes » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:19 am

Wut wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:17 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:15 am
Wut wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:14 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:47 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:36 pm
Charliesheen wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:06 pm
True. If you can’t pay extra for US style healthcare, you get filthy hospitals and 6 month delays on what the NHS says is elective; your pain or disabilities be damned.
No, you often don't get any healthcare at all. You may have to "elect" to die from treatable issues.
Nope, US healthcare law states that hospitals cannot refuse treatment.
Isn't that just acute emergency care?

You're not going to show up weekly for free radiation treatments or get a new kidney just because you need one.
No, treatment facilities cannot turn away patients based on ability to pay.
Sorry, I think you're wrong about that.
Yea, that's only for emergencies. You can't pay they kick you out of bed and dump you on the street. Can't afford cancer treatments? You could be out of luck.

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Wut
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#17

Post by Wut » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:23 am

Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:21 am
Stapes wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:19 am
Wut wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:17 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:15 am
Wut wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:14 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:47 am


Nope, US healthcare law states that hospitals cannot refuse treatment.
Isn't that just acute emergency care?

You're not going to show up weekly for free radiation treatments or get a new kidney just because you need one.
No, treatment facilities cannot turn away patients based on ability to pay.
Sorry, I think you're wrong about that.
Yea, that's only for emergencies. You can't pay they kick you out of bed and dump you on the street. Can't afford cancer treatments? You could be out of luck.
Nonsense
Not nonsense.

https://www.acep.org/life-as-a-physicia ... act-sheet/
wut?

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FSchmertz
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#18

Post by FSchmertz » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:24 am

Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:21 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:18 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:12 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:10 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:51 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:49 am
:lol:

You'll die miserably regardless
You claimed that a patient would be denied care when that isnt true at all. Above the fray guys usually know that
You don't think they'd have it better chance of receiving real healthcare via someplace like the UK?
Why would I think that?
Because any healthcare debate eventually turns on some kind of nonsense regarding waiting times, death panels etc. (just scroll up to some of CS's posts) from the other side, without addressing adequate care for everyone who needs it, and any real alternative plan ala Chump's and the Rethugs imaginary "Really Awesome Health Plan" that'll exist as soon as they get rid of Obamacare (which really isn't that good either, btw).
See, I think the ACA is the way to go because it gets the market involved. Not just healthcare stocks, but provider competition as well. If we all believe, and I assume you do, that competition elevates all levels, why wouldnt that be the case in healthcare?
I expect we're closer on this than either of us would be with CS, for instance.

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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#19

Post by Stapes » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:30 am

The U.S. is the only developed nation without healthcare for all. We cant even discuss it because morons dive right into "oh my god" what about illegals. Every country has their own version that works for them. We could do the same here. Our healthcare doesn't work here. We spend more per capita and get terrible results back. High mortality rates for adults and infants in the richest country in the world. Bankruptcies from getting cancer. My sister just got diagnosed with cancer and has a 9,000 dollar deductible before anything starts getting paid for. And still pays 700 a month. That is untenable for the average smuck.

I've read plenty of articles from US citizens who became UK citizens through marriage or whatever and they are more than happy with the care they get.

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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#20

Post by FSchmertz » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:38 am

Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:31 am
Stapes wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:30 am
The U.S. is the only developed nation without healthcare for all. We cant even discuss it because morons dive right into "oh my god" what about illegals. Every country has their own version that works for them. We could do the same here. Our healthcare doesn't work here. We spend more per capita and get terrible results back. High mortality rates for adults and infants in the richest country in the world. Bankruptcies from getting cancer. My sister just got diagnosed with cancer and has a 9,000 dollar deductible before anything starts getting paid for. And still pays 700 a month. That is untenable for the average smuck.

I've read plenty of articles from US citizens who became UK citizens through marriage or whatever and they are more than happy with the care they get.
You talk as if the illegal immigration number is a trivial amount. Do you not see that as an issue?
I think it's an issue, but it shouldn't be used as a smokescreen hiding the fact that what we have now isn't really working.

We've got to figure out how to get a better bang for our buck, and make healthcare accessible to every citizen.

(note the "citizen" part?)

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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#21

Post by FSchmertz » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:45 am

Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:40 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:38 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:31 am
Stapes wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:30 am
The U.S. is the only developed nation without healthcare for all. We cant even discuss it because morons dive right into "oh my god" what about illegals. Every country has their own version that works for them. We could do the same here. Our healthcare doesn't work here. We spend more per capita and get terrible results back. High mortality rates for adults and infants in the richest country in the world. Bankruptcies from getting cancer. My sister just got diagnosed with cancer and has a 9,000 dollar deductible before anything starts getting paid for. And still pays 700 a month. That is untenable for the average smuck.

I've read plenty of articles from US citizens who became UK citizens through marriage or whatever and they are more than happy with the care they get.
You talk as if the illegal immigration number is a trivial amount. Do you not see that as an issue?
I think it's an issue, but it shouldn't be used as a smokescreen hiding the fact that what we have now isn't really working.

We've got to figure out how to get a better bang for our buck, and make healthcare accessible to every citizen.

(note the "citizen" part?)
I agree, it needs improvement but what federal program gives you hope that placing 320 million people on the federal dole will improve care? I just dont see any evidence of that
We're debating the way our Congresscritters should've been debating all along. This is too important to not be.

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fouts
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#22

Post by fouts » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:19 am

Wut wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:17 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:15 am
Wut wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:14 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:47 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:36 pm
Charliesheen wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:06 pm
True. If you can’t pay extra for US style healthcare, you get filthy hospitals and 6 month delays on what the NHS says is elective; your pain or disabilities be damned.
No, you often don't get any healthcare at all. You may have to "elect" to die from treatable issues.
Nope, US healthcare law states that hospitals cannot refuse treatment.
Isn't that just acute emergency care?

You're not going to show up weekly for free radiation treatments or get a new kidney just because you need one.
No, treatment facilities cannot turn away patients based on ability to pay.
Sorry, I think you're wrong about that.
any hospital can refuse anybody emergency services,but then the Feds will disqualify them from Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements on everything. So,if your O.D.ing on the street,or have a gunshot,knife wound ,etc and apparently not carrying a Blue Cross membership, it's off to the county hospital for free stuff and the bill will windup on property owners taxes under "county services' or the like. it's called 'steering' . Uninsured or under insured are more likely to sue the hospital or doctors for whatever reason. Corp hospitals don't want that headache and I cannot blame them.

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megman
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#23

Post by megman » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:23 pm

‘We can’t afford healthcare’: US hospital workers fight for higher wages

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... conditions

“Some people ask ‘why’ to determine a motive, I ask ‘why’ because I don’t believe there’s any logical reason to do anything.”
-Nietzsche on the habits of road crossing chickens

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Charliesheen
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#24

Post by Charliesheen » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:34 pm



Listen to the cheers.

And the folks who brought you the roll out of Obamacare and the Iowa caucus fiasco know they can do a better job than market forces and the private sector.

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DandyDon
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#25

Post by DandyDon » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:24 pm

Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:40 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:38 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:31 am
Stapes wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:30 am
The U.S. is the only developed nation without healthcare for all. We cant even discuss it because morons dive right into "oh my god" what about illegals. Every country has their own version that works for them. We could do the same here. Our healthcare doesn't work here. We spend more per capita and get terrible results back. High mortality rates for adults and infants in the richest country in the world. Bankruptcies from getting cancer. My sister just got diagnosed with cancer and has a 9,000 dollar deductible before anything starts getting paid for. And still pays 700 a month. That is untenable for the average smuck.

I've read plenty of articles from US citizens who became UK citizens through marriage or whatever and they are more than happy with the care they get.
You talk as if the illegal immigration number is a trivial amount. Do you not see that as an issue?
I think it's an issue, but it shouldn't be used as a smokescreen hiding the fact that what we have now isn't really working.

We've got to figure out how to get a better bang for our buck, and make healthcare accessible to every citizen.

(note the "citizen" part?)
I agree, it needs improvement but what federal program gives you hope that placing 320 million people on the federal dole will improve care? I just dont see any evidence of that

Medicare for All Would Save U.S. $450 Billion, Prevent Nearly 70,000 Deaths a Year

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 3/fulltext

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