Moving to private healthcare systems

For all the Trumpeteers and Liberal Commies to post their screeds.
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Wut
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#26

Post by Wut » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:23 am

Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:21 am
Stapes wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:19 am
Wut wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:17 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:15 am
Wut wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:14 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:47 am


Nope, US healthcare law states that hospitals cannot refuse treatment.
Isn't that just acute emergency care?

You're not going to show up weekly for free radiation treatments or get a new kidney just because you need one.
No, treatment facilities cannot turn away patients based on ability to pay.
Sorry, I think you're wrong about that.
Yea, that's only for emergencies. You can't pay they kick you out of bed and dump you on the street. Can't afford cancer treatments? You could be out of luck.
Nonsense
Not nonsense.

https://www.acep.org/life-as-a-physicia ... act-sheet/

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FSchmertz
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#27

Post by FSchmertz » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:24 am

Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:21 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:18 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:12 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:10 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:51 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:49 am
:lol:

You'll die miserably regardless
You claimed that a patient would be denied care when that isnt true at all. Above the fray guys usually know that
You don't think they'd have it better chance of receiving real healthcare via someplace like the UK?
Why would I think that?
Because any healthcare debate eventually turns on some kind of nonsense regarding waiting times, death panels etc. (just scroll up to some of CS's posts) from the other side, without addressing adequate care for everyone who needs it, and any real alternative plan ala Chump's and the Rethugs imaginary "Really Awesome Health Plan" that'll exist as soon as they get rid of Obamacare (which really isn't that good either, btw).
See, I think the ACA is the way to go because it gets the market involved. Not just healthcare stocks, but provider competition as well. If we all believe, and I assume you do, that competition elevates all levels, why wouldnt that be the case in healthcare?
I expect we're closer on this than either of us would be with CS, for instance.

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Stapes
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#28

Post by Stapes » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:30 am

The U.S. is the only developed nation without healthcare for all. We cant even discuss it because morons dive right into "oh my god" what about illegals. Every country has their own version that works for them. We could do the same here. Our healthcare doesn't work here. We spend more per capita and get terrible results back. High mortality rates for adults and infants in the richest country in the world. Bankruptcies from getting cancer. My sister just got diagnosed with cancer and has a 9,000 dollar deductible before anything starts getting paid for. And still pays 700 a month. That is untenable for the average smuck.

I've read plenty of articles from US citizens who became UK citizens through marriage or whatever and they are more than happy with the care they get.
Not in the a.m. bro.

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Biker
Not really a democrat
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#29

Post by Biker » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:31 am

Stapes wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:30 am
The U.S. is the only developed nation without healthcare for all. We cant even discuss it because morons dive right into "oh my god" what about illegals. Every country has their own version that works for them. We could do the same here. Our healthcare doesn't work here. We spend more per capita and get terrible results back. High mortality rates for adults and infants in the richest country in the world. Bankruptcies from getting cancer. My sister just got diagnosed with cancer and has a 9,000 dollar deductible before anything starts getting paid for. And still pays 700 a month. That is untenable for the average smuck.

I've read plenty of articles from US citizens who became UK citizens through marriage or whatever and they are more than happy with the care they get.
You talk as if the illegal immigration number is a trivial amount. Do you not see that as an issue?

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FSchmertz
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#30

Post by FSchmertz » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:38 am

Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:31 am
Stapes wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:30 am
The U.S. is the only developed nation without healthcare for all. We cant even discuss it because morons dive right into "oh my god" what about illegals. Every country has their own version that works for them. We could do the same here. Our healthcare doesn't work here. We spend more per capita and get terrible results back. High mortality rates for adults and infants in the richest country in the world. Bankruptcies from getting cancer. My sister just got diagnosed with cancer and has a 9,000 dollar deductible before anything starts getting paid for. And still pays 700 a month. That is untenable for the average smuck.

I've read plenty of articles from US citizens who became UK citizens through marriage or whatever and they are more than happy with the care they get.
You talk as if the illegal immigration number is a trivial amount. Do you not see that as an issue?
I think it's an issue, but it shouldn't be used as a smokescreen hiding the fact that what we have now isn't really working.

We've got to figure out how to get a better bang for our buck, and make healthcare accessible to every citizen.

(note the "citizen" part?)

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Biker
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#31

Post by Biker » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:40 am

FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:38 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:31 am
Stapes wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:30 am
The U.S. is the only developed nation without healthcare for all. We cant even discuss it because morons dive right into "oh my god" what about illegals. Every country has their own version that works for them. We could do the same here. Our healthcare doesn't work here. We spend more per capita and get terrible results back. High mortality rates for adults and infants in the richest country in the world. Bankruptcies from getting cancer. My sister just got diagnosed with cancer and has a 9,000 dollar deductible before anything starts getting paid for. And still pays 700 a month. That is untenable for the average smuck.

I've read plenty of articles from US citizens who became UK citizens through marriage or whatever and they are more than happy with the care they get.
You talk as if the illegal immigration number is a trivial amount. Do you not see that as an issue?
I think it's an issue, but it shouldn't be used as a smokescreen hiding the fact that what we have now isn't really working.

We've got to figure out how to get a better bang for our buck, and make healthcare accessible to every citizen.

(note the "citizen" part?)
I agree, it needs improvement but what federal program gives you hope that placing 320 million people on the federal dole will improve care? I just dont see any evidence of that

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FSchmertz
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#32

Post by FSchmertz » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:45 am

Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:40 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:38 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:31 am
Stapes wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:30 am
The U.S. is the only developed nation without healthcare for all. We cant even discuss it because morons dive right into "oh my god" what about illegals. Every country has their own version that works for them. We could do the same here. Our healthcare doesn't work here. We spend more per capita and get terrible results back. High mortality rates for adults and infants in the richest country in the world. Bankruptcies from getting cancer. My sister just got diagnosed with cancer and has a 9,000 dollar deductible before anything starts getting paid for. And still pays 700 a month. That is untenable for the average smuck.

I've read plenty of articles from US citizens who became UK citizens through marriage or whatever and they are more than happy with the care they get.
You talk as if the illegal immigration number is a trivial amount. Do you not see that as an issue?
I think it's an issue, but it shouldn't be used as a smokescreen hiding the fact that what we have now isn't really working.

We've got to figure out how to get a better bang for our buck, and make healthcare accessible to every citizen.

(note the "citizen" part?)
I agree, it needs improvement but what federal program gives you hope that placing 320 million people on the federal dole will improve care? I just dont see any evidence of that
We're debating the way our Congresscritters should've been debating all along. This is too important to not be.

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fouts
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#33

Post by fouts » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:19 am

Wut wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:17 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:15 am
Wut wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:14 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:47 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:36 pm
Charliesheen wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:06 pm
True. If you can’t pay extra for US style healthcare, you get filthy hospitals and 6 month delays on what the NHS says is elective; your pain or disabilities be damned.
No, you often don't get any healthcare at all. You may have to "elect" to die from treatable issues.
Nope, US healthcare law states that hospitals cannot refuse treatment.
Isn't that just acute emergency care?

You're not going to show up weekly for free radiation treatments or get a new kidney just because you need one.
No, treatment facilities cannot turn away patients based on ability to pay.
Sorry, I think you're wrong about that.
any hospital can refuse anybody emergency services,but then the Feds will disqualify them from Medicare and Medicaid reimbursements on everything. So,if your O.D.ing on the street,or have a gunshot,knife wound ,etc and apparently not carrying a Blue Cross membership, it's off to the county hospital for free stuff and the bill will windup on property owners taxes under "county services' or the like. it's called 'steering' . Uninsured or under insured are more likely to sue the hospital or doctors for whatever reason. Corp hospitals don't want that headache and I cannot blame them.

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megman
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#34

Post by megman » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:23 pm

‘We can’t afford healthcare’: US hospital workers fight for higher wages

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... conditions
If you've been to Algonquin Park you'll be disappointed when you get to Heaven.

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Charliesheen
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#35

Post by Charliesheen » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:34 pm



Listen to the cheers.

And the folks who brought you the roll out of Obamacare and the Iowa caucus fiasco know they can do a better job than market forces and the private sector.

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DandyDon
Redneck Commie
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#36

Post by DandyDon » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:24 pm

Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:40 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:38 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:31 am
Stapes wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:30 am
The U.S. is the only developed nation without healthcare for all. We cant even discuss it because morons dive right into "oh my god" what about illegals. Every country has their own version that works for them. We could do the same here. Our healthcare doesn't work here. We spend more per capita and get terrible results back. High mortality rates for adults and infants in the richest country in the world. Bankruptcies from getting cancer. My sister just got diagnosed with cancer and has a 9,000 dollar deductible before anything starts getting paid for. And still pays 700 a month. That is untenable for the average smuck.

I've read plenty of articles from US citizens who became UK citizens through marriage or whatever and they are more than happy with the care they get.
You talk as if the illegal immigration number is a trivial amount. Do you not see that as an issue?
I think it's an issue, but it shouldn't be used as a smokescreen hiding the fact that what we have now isn't really working.

We've got to figure out how to get a better bang for our buck, and make healthcare accessible to every citizen.

(note the "citizen" part?)
I agree, it needs improvement but what federal program gives you hope that placing 320 million people on the federal dole will improve care? I just dont see any evidence of that

Medicare for All Would Save U.S. $450 Billion, Prevent Nearly 70,000 Deaths a Year

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 3/fulltext

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Biker
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#37

Post by Biker » Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:52 am

DandyDon wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:24 pm
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:40 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:38 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:31 am
Stapes wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:30 am
The U.S. is the only developed nation without healthcare for all. We cant even discuss it because morons dive right into "oh my god" what about illegals. Every country has their own version that works for them. We could do the same here. Our healthcare doesn't work here. We spend more per capita and get terrible results back. High mortality rates for adults and infants in the richest country in the world. Bankruptcies from getting cancer. My sister just got diagnosed with cancer and has a 9,000 dollar deductible before anything starts getting paid for. And still pays 700 a month. That is untenable for the average smuck.

I've read plenty of articles from US citizens who became UK citizens through marriage or whatever and they are more than happy with the care they get.
You talk as if the illegal immigration number is a trivial amount. Do you not see that as an issue?
I think it's an issue, but it shouldn't be used as a smokescreen hiding the fact that what we have now isn't really working.

We've got to figure out how to get a better bang for our buck, and make healthcare accessible to every citizen.

(note the "citizen" part?)
I agree, it needs improvement but what federal program gives you hope that placing 320 million people on the federal dole will improve care? I just dont see any evidence of that

Medicare for All Would Save U.S. $450 Billion, Prevent Nearly 70,000 Deaths a Year

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 3/fulltext
Again, there is zero evidence of this

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AnalHamster
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:46 pm

Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#38

Post by AnalHamster » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:29 am

Biker wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:52 am
DandyDon wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:24 pm
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:40 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:38 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:31 am
Stapes wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:30 am
The U.S. is the only developed nation without healthcare for all. We cant even discuss it because morons dive right into "oh my god" what about illegals. Every country has their own version that works for them. We could do the same here. Our healthcare doesn't work here. We spend more per capita and get terrible results back. High mortality rates for adults and infants in the richest country in the world. Bankruptcies from getting cancer. My sister just got diagnosed with cancer and has a 9,000 dollar deductible before anything starts getting paid for. And still pays 700 a month. That is untenable for the average smuck.

I've read plenty of articles from US citizens who became UK citizens through marriage or whatever and they are more than happy with the care they get.
You talk as if the illegal immigration number is a trivial amount. Do you not see that as an issue?
I think it's an issue, but it shouldn't be used as a smokescreen hiding the fact that what we have now isn't really working.

We've got to figure out how to get a better bang for our buck, and make healthcare accessible to every citizen.

(note the "citizen" part?)
I agree, it needs improvement but what federal program gives you hope that placing 320 million people on the federal dole will improve care? I just dont see any evidence of that

Medicare for All Would Save U.S. $450 Billion, Prevent Nearly 70,000 Deaths a Year

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 3/fulltext
Again, there is zero evidence of this
That is just not true, you have the evidence that medicare is more efficient and cheaper within your own mess and you have the evidence of every other developed nation's healthcare system.

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QillerDaemon
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Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#39

Post by QillerDaemon » Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:27 pm

Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:31 am
Stapes wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:30 am
The U.S. is the only developed nation without healthcare for all. We cant even discuss it because morons dive right into "oh my god" what about illegals. Every country has their own version that works for them. We could do the same here. Our healthcare doesn't work here. We spend more per capita and get terrible results back. High mortality rates for adults and infants in the richest country in the world. Bankruptcies from getting cancer. My sister just got diagnosed with cancer and has a 9,000 dollar deductible before anything starts getting paid for. And still pays 700 a month. That is untenable for the average smuck.

I've read plenty of articles from US citizens who became UK citizens through marriage or whatever and they are more than happy with the care they get.
You talk as if the illegal immigration number is a trivial amount. Do you not see that as an issue?
It wouldn't be an issue if certain classes of employers didn't have such a need for illegals just to make their profits. Recently here in Florida, our congress has been debating having employers use the national E-verify system to check on the eligibility of their employee candidates to work. Except the bill explicitly excludes employers in the agriculture businesses, farming in citrus and sugarcane for example. Florida still derives much of its GDP from an agricultural economy, despite tourism and shipping. So guess what industry in Florida hires the most illegals by far? Hint: Disneyworld sure ain't hiring them.

If it weren't for Florida agriculture, we wouldn't have the many illegals ("terk er jerbz!") we have. And our produce wouldn't be as cheap as it is. Beside citrus, Florida is big on tomatoes, melons, strawberries, and fern. And definitely dairy, we're by far the largest dairy state in the south US. And all those industries require illegals to work if those industries want to make a profit, since we can't get US citizens to work at them for the pay. And we don't want to pay more for produce and milk. So an argument could be made that any healthcare system we get also covers illegals, at least to some degree. Using illegals to make a case against a national healthcare system really is a smokescreen.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion ... story.html
If you can't be a good example, you can still serve as a horrible warning.

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DandyDon
Redneck Commie
Posts: 1297
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:05 pm

Re: Moving to private healthcare systems

#40

Post by DandyDon » Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:37 am

AnalHamster wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:29 am
Biker wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:52 am
DandyDon wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:24 pm
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:40 am
FSchmertz wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:38 am
Biker wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:31 am


You talk as if the illegal immigration number is a trivial amount. Do you not see that as an issue?
I think it's an issue, but it shouldn't be used as a smokescreen hiding the fact that what we have now isn't really working.

We've got to figure out how to get a better bang for our buck, and make healthcare accessible to every citizen.

(note the "citizen" part?)
I agree, it needs improvement but what federal program gives you hope that placing 320 million people on the federal dole will improve care? I just dont see any evidence of that

Medicare for All Would Save U.S. $450 Billion, Prevent Nearly 70,000 Deaths a Year

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 3/fulltext
Again, there is zero evidence of this
That is just not true, you have the evidence that medicare is more efficient and cheaper within your own mess and you have the evidence of every other developed nation's healthcare system.
Why would you try and convince biker? He has his money on making all he can on the current Healthcare System. He doesn't want a system that actually takes care of the citizens..

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