CHEEZY17 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 1:18 am
Administration puts blame squarely on Hamas as to why Americans are not able to get out
Of course they do. Meanwhile.....
"They started letting foreigners out today but it's not Americans because I guess we're not as important as we thought," Utah resident Susan Beseiso told CBS News on Wednesday.
"The American Embassy and the State Department haven't called us since the last time we went to the border and got bombed four times. They haven't been communicating with us or doing anything to get us out," Beseiso said.
It's like they're holding us hostages — not Hamas holding us hostages — it's the IDF soldiers, Egypt and America. They're using us as a human shield in a way."
"They started letting foreigners out today but it's not Americans because I guess we're not as important as we thought," Utah resident Susan Beseiso told CBS News on Wednesday.
"They started letting foreigners out today but it's not Americans because I guess we're not as important as we thought," Utah resident Susan Beseiso told CBS News on Wednesday.
She actually has it backwards
Israel gains more than Hamas by trapping Americans in Gaza. Israel is the one bombing near the southern border. Israel is the one directly putting civilians in Gaza into harms way.
American leaders spinning this into blaming Hamas is seriously world class mental gymnastics. If Hamas wanted the Americans as hostages, wouldn't they just take them as hostages? It's not like they aren't actively holding hundreds against their will already.
Re: I'm not exactly a fan of Israel.....
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:59 am
by Burn1dwn
Yet 95% of our leaders support giving Israel carte blanche in their revenge tour (on our dime). How is this possible?
Yet 95% of our leaders support giving Israel carte blanche in their revenge tour (on our dime). How is this possible?
don't take this wrong, but how come you are anti israel? I just don't run into many people that take that position.
Re: I'm not exactly a fan of Israel.....
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:39 am
by Burn1dwn
Animal wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:07 am
don't take this wrong, but how come you are anti israel? I just don't run into many people that take that position.
Short answer, I think their government is playing us (American taxpayers).
Ummm, no.......Hamas has made it perfectly clear what their end game is
Re: I'm not exactly a fan of Israel.....
Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 5:14 pm
by Biker
Re: I'm not exactly a fan of Israel.....
Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:36 am
by CHEEZY17
[media] [/media]
Re: I'm not exactly a fan of Israel.....
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:49 am
by Biker
Re: I'm not exactly a fan of Israel.....
Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:08 am
by Burn1dwn
Billions of dollars in aid and they can't defend themselves from the open air prison they helped create on their border. Fucking crazy that 98% of our leaders are not questioning their support.
What's next? Is AIPAC going to host a celebratory Fundraiser?
This censuring people you disagree with is getting out of hand. Aren't strongly worded tweets enough?
There are almost 2 months left, maybe the Rs can squeeze another censure vote in and break the record for censures in a year.
Exactly! Freedom of speech should be protected at all costs. Even if it's something you personally find highly offensive. That person has the right to say it and you have a right to rebuttal.
What's next? Is AIPAC going to host a celebratory Fundraiser?
This censuring people you disagree with is getting out of hand. Aren't strongly worded tweets enough?
There are almost 2 months left, maybe the Rs can squeeze another censure vote in and break the record for censures in a year.
Exactly! Freedom of speech should be protected at all costs. Even if it's something you personally find highly offensive. That person has the right to say it and you have a right to rebuttal.
Generally speaking I agree with the sentiment. I dont think its out of line however to censure (basically reprimand) a sitting US congressperson that refuses to condemn the raping of innocent civilians, beheading babies and openly supports a designated terrorist group while simultaneously advocating for the destruction of one of our closest allies.
Re: I'm not exactly a fan of Israel.....
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2023 12:43 am
by Antknot
Re: I'm not exactly a fan of Israel.....
Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2023 2:21 am
by Animal
just what we need. more immigrants. what a great idea.
Re: I'm not exactly a fan of Israel.....
Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2023 2:35 am
by CHEEZY17
Fetterman waves an Israeli flag to pro Hamas protestors
Re: I'm not exactly a fan of Israel.....
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:02 am
by CHEEZY17
Arab World for Research and Development (AWRAD) research firm conducted a poll of Palestinians:
*Slightly more than three in four Palestinians have a positive view of Hamas in the wake of its Oct. 7 terrorist attacks in Israel
*The Palestinian poll—the first of its kind since the Oct. 7 attacks—found that 48.2% of respondents characterize Hamas’s role as “very positive,” while 27.8% view Hamas as “somewhat positive.” Almost 80% regard the role of Hamas’s Al-Qassam Brigades “military” wing as positive.
*When asked whether they supported or opposed Hamas’s actions on Oct. 7, 59.3% of the Palestinians surveyed said they “extremely” supported the attacks and 15.7% said they “somewhat” supported the murderous spree.
*Only 12.7% expressed disapproval with 10.9% saying they neither supported nor opposed the attack
Three in four Palestinians support Hamas’s massacre Ninety-eight percent of respondents said the Oct. 7 slaughter made them feel "prouder of their identity as Palestinians." https://www.jns.org/three-in-four-pales ... -massacre/
-------------------------
Spin away, Lefties.
Re: I'm not exactly a fan of Israel.....
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:49 am
by Burn1dwn
CHEEZY17 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:02 am
Arab World for Research and Development (AWRAD) research firm conducted a poll of Palestinians:
*Slightly more than three in four Palestinians have a positive view of Hamas in the wake of its Oct. 7 terrorist attacks in Israel
*The Palestinian poll—the first of its kind since the Oct. 7 attacks—found that 48.2% of respondents characterize Hamas’s role as “very positive,” while 27.8% view Hamas as “somewhat positive.” Almost 80% regard the role of Hamas’s Al-Qassam Brigades “military” wing as positive.
*When asked whether they supported or opposed Hamas’s actions on Oct. 7, 59.3% of the Palestinians surveyed said they “extremely” supported the attacks and 15.7% said they “somewhat” supported the murderous spree.
*Only 12.7% expressed disapproval with 10.9% saying they neither supported nor opposed the attack
Three in four Palestinians support Hamas’s massacre Ninety-eight percent of respondents said the Oct. 7 slaughter made them feel "prouder of their identity as Palestinians." https://www.jns.org/three-in-four-pales ... -massacre/
-------------------------
Spin away, Lefties.
Spin? 98% of Palestinians have not said Oct 7th made them feel "prouder of their identity as Palestinians".
The question was "Considering the ongoing events, do you feel a sense of pride as a Palestinian?"
Which would include the way they are reacting to the collective punishment Israel is enacting on their people. Pretty big difference. If you want to read the whole poll, and discuss any part of it. Let me know.
CHEEZY17 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 3:02 am
Arab World for Research and Development (AWRAD) research firm conducted a poll of Palestinians:
*Slightly more than three in four Palestinians have a positive view of Hamas in the wake of its Oct. 7 terrorist attacks in Israel
*The Palestinian poll—the first of its kind since the Oct. 7 attacks—found that 48.2% of respondents characterize Hamas’s role as “very positive,” while 27.8% view Hamas as “somewhat positive.” Almost 80% regard the role of Hamas’s Al-Qassam Brigades “military” wing as positive.
*When asked whether they supported or opposed Hamas’s actions on Oct. 7, 59.3% of the Palestinians surveyed said they “extremely” supported the attacks and 15.7% said they “somewhat” supported the murderous spree.
*Only 12.7% expressed disapproval with 10.9% saying they neither supported nor opposed the attack
Three in four Palestinians support Hamas’s massacre Ninety-eight percent of respondents said the Oct. 7 slaughter made them feel "prouder of their identity as Palestinians." https://www.jns.org/three-in-four-pales ... -massacre/
-------------------------
Spin away, Lefties.
Spin? 98% of Palestinians have not said Oct 7th made them feel "prouder of their identity as Palestinians".
The question was "Considering the ongoing events, do you feel a sense of pride as a Palestinian?"
Which would include the way they are reacting to the collective punishment Israel is enacting on their people. Pretty big difference. If you want to read the whole poll, and discuss any part of it. Let me know.
Yeah, it looks like its in the interpretation of the question. Israelis looking at that question obviously would put more emphasis on the initial attack as part of the "ongoing events" while others may put more emphasis on the totality. Its nice to see the entire poll though.
Table 27 asks specifically "How much do you support the military operation carried out by the Palestinian resistance led by Hamas on October 7th?"(Disaggregated by region)
75% support the action with another 10.9% giving a "meh".
That is pretty point blank with not much gray area.
Re: I'm not exactly a fan of Israel.....
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:49 am
by Burn1dwn
CHEEZY17 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:17 am
Yeah, it looks like its in the interpretation of the question. Israelis looking at that question obviously would put more emphasis on the initial attack as part of the "ongoing events" while others may put more emphasis on the totality. Its nice to see the entire poll though.
Table 27 asks specifically "How much do you support the military operation carried out by the Palestinian resistance led by Hamas on October 7th?"(Disaggregated by region)
75% support the action with another 10.9% giving a "meh".
That is pretty point blank with not much gray area.
It's a crazy poll that shows how complicated this issue really is (even if it is just 600+ participants that live under 2 governments in two "occupied" territories). I like that it splits the WB and Gaza responses.
Sticking with Table 27, don't you think it's strange that close to 70% of Palestinians from the WB strongly support October 7th compared to less than 50% of Gazans? Seems like the Palestinians that aren't getting carpet bombed support the October 7th attack more than the ones who are under bombardment.
Then on Table 55, less than 8% of Gazans want Hamas in charge at the end of this war.
Table 31 is also interesting. Less than 1% of all Palestinians think that October 7th was to stop the peace process, while close to 75% believe it was to Free Palestine, break the siege on Gaza, or because of the Israeli actions at the Aqsa Mosque earlier this year. So obviously the Palestinians have what they feel are legitimate gripes to attack Israel that has little to do with "killing jews". More like they are upset with the actions of the Israeli government. Whether they are valid or not is up to interpretation but Israel has been pushing the "jew killing" narrative while ignoring what 75% of the Palestinians are upset about.
CHEEZY17 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:17 am
Yeah, it looks like its in the interpretation of the question. Israelis looking at that question obviously would put more emphasis on the initial attack as part of the "ongoing events" while others may put more emphasis on the totality. Its nice to see the entire poll though.
Table 27 asks specifically "How much do you support the military operation carried out by the Palestinian resistance led by Hamas on October 7th?"(Disaggregated by region)
75% support the action with another 10.9% giving a "meh".
That is pretty point blank with not much gray area.
It's a crazy poll that shows how complicated this issue really is (even if it is just 600+ participants that live under 2 governments in two "occupied" territories). I like that it splits the WB and Gaza responses.
Sticking with Table 27, don't you think it's strange that close to 70% of Palestinians from the WB strongly support October 7th compared to less than 50% of Gazans? Seems like the Palestinians that aren't getting carpet bombed support the October 7th attack more than the ones who are under bombardment.
Looking into that it shows the prevalence of the support throughout though. Yes, the support is less after the retaliation but what was it right before? It seems logical that the retaliatory strikes would tamper down their support a bit.
Then on Table 55, less than 8% of Gazans want Hamas in charge at the end of this war.
That is a hopeful response but it leaves out the fact that Hamas, and their known objectives and thoughts, was legitimately elected by the Palestinians in the first place. Most disconcerting after all this we still have table 30:
Table 30: How do you view the role of the following parties:(Disaggregated by gender)
76% have a positive view of Hamas
84% have a positive view of Islamic Jihad
Table 31 is also interesting. Less than 1% of all Palestinians think that October 7th was to stop the peace process, while close to 75% believe it was to Free Palestine, break the siege on Gaza, or because of the Israeli actions at the Aqsa Mosque earlier this year. So obviously the Palestinians have what they feel are legitimate gripes to attack Israel that has little to do with "killing jews". More like they are upset with the actions of the Israeli government. Whether they are valid or not is up to interpretation but Israel has been pushing the "jew killing" narrative while ignoring what 75% of the Palestinians are upset about.
When Hamas (and the poll shows large percentages of regular Palestinians still supporting Hamas in general) cant even acknowledge the right of the state of Israel to exist or that many want no Israel at all in that area what is the logical conclusion from those beliefs? How else would there be no Israel at all except by killing them? The original and rewritten charter of Hamas doesnt exactly paint them in the greatest light when it comes to accepting Israel even being there. The numbers here show a disheartening belief in a "two-state" existence. Do you have any data on the Palestinians thoughts on the matter before the attack and retaliation? That would be a good comparison.
It would be cool to see the responses of a larger more comprehensive poll but this is the best we have at the moment.
