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Re: Recent projects
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:41 pm
by Blast
It is. The quench is the sudden cooling of the metal, but not all react the same way or the same speed. I'm still scratching my head at some of the chemical structures and crystallization. Martzite, austenite, and 1 other I can never remember. Anyway, due to allotting metals and all that the crystallization happens at different speeds. Most high carbons are good with a simple oil quench but you need to warm it up to around 125 to 140 degrees to reduce its viscosity and get better contact otherwise the flashboiling oil doesn't make good contact with the steel. Some steel needs a faster medium to get more hardness, a lot of the medium carbon steels are like this and those are the water quenching steels.
There are a shit ton of superstitions and misinformation about the process too. "Only move the knife in this direction or it'll warp" type of shit.
I haven't worked on a Damascus billet to completion, my first is leaning against the wall waiting on me to get a fresh bottle of propane, but they touched on the speed of cooling and amount the different steels contract a couple times. Where some of the layers are faster cooling than others and if they aren't layered evenly you'll get a warp. Some people go so far as to count hammer strikes on each side.
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:44 pm
by Animal
Blast wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:41 pm
It is. The quench is the sudden cooling of the metal, but not all react the same way or the same speed. I'm still scratching my head at some of the chemical structures and crystallization. Martzite, austenite, and 1 other I can never remember. Anyway, due to allotting metals and all that the crystallization happens at different speeds. Most high carbons are good with a simple oil quench but you need to warm it up to around 125 to 140 degrees to reduce its viscosity and get better contact otherwise the flashboiling oil doesn't make good contact with the steel. Some steel needs a faster medium to get more hardness, a lot of the medium carbon steels are like this and those are the water quenching steels.
There are a shit ton of superstitions and misinformation about the process too. "Only move the knife in this direction or it'll warp" type of shit.
I haven't worked on a Damascus billet to completion, my first is leaning against the wall waiting on me to get a fresh bottle of propane, but they touched on the speed of cooling and amount the different steels contract a couple times. Where some of the layers are faster cooling than others and if they aren't layered evenly you'll get a warp. Some people go so far as to count hammer strikes on each side.
Big factories that have to quench large quantities in an assembly type process must have that down to a repeatable process. Where they know it will work every time with almost 100% certainty, right?
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:04 pm
by Blast
Animal wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:44 pm
Blast wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:41 pm
It is. The quench is the sudden cooling of the metal, but not all react the same way or the same speed. I'm still scratching my head at some of the chemical structures and crystallization. Martzite, austenite, and 1 other I can never remember. Anyway, due to allotting metals and all that the crystallization happens at different speeds. Most high carbons are good with a simple oil quench but you need to warm it up to around 125 to 140 degrees to reduce its viscosity and get better contact otherwise the flashboiling oil doesn't make good contact with the steel. Some steel needs a faster medium to get more hardness, a lot of the medium carbon steels are like this and those are the water quenching steels.
There are a shit ton of superstitions and misinformation about the process too. "Only move the knife in this direction or it'll warp" type of shit.
I haven't worked on a Damascus billet to completion, my first is leaning against the wall waiting on me to get a fresh bottle of propane, but they touched on the speed of cooling and amount the different steels contract a couple times. Where some of the layers are faster cooling than others and if they aren't layered evenly you'll get a warp. Some people go so far as to count hammer strikes on each side.
Big factories that have to quench large quantities in an assembly type process must have that down to a repeatable process. Where they know it will work every time with almost 100% certainty, right?
They do, there are also companies that will do small batches. I have a reference app that gives me the info I use with different steels.
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:06 pm
by Animal
Blast wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:04 pm
Animal wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:44 pm
Blast wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:41 pm
It is. The quench is the sudden cooling of the metal, but not all react the same way or the same speed. I'm still scratching my head at some of the chemical structures and crystallization. Martzite, austenite, and 1 other I can never remember. Anyway, due to allotting metals and all that the crystallization happens at different speeds. Most high carbons are good with a simple oil quench but you need to warm it up to around 125 to 140 degrees to reduce its viscosity and get better contact otherwise the flashboiling oil doesn't make good contact with the steel. Some steel needs a faster medium to get more hardness, a lot of the medium carbon steels are like this and those are the water quenching steels.
There are a shit ton of superstitions and misinformation about the process too. "Only move the knife in this direction or it'll warp" type of shit.
I haven't worked on a Damascus billet to completion, my first is leaning against the wall waiting on me to get a fresh bottle of propane, but they touched on the speed of cooling and amount the different steels contract a couple times. Where some of the layers are faster cooling than others and if they aren't layered evenly you'll get a warp. Some people go so far as to count hammer strikes on each side.
Big factories that have to quench large quantities in an assembly type process must have that down to a repeatable process. Where they know it will work every time with almost 100% certainty, right?
They do, there are also companies that will do small batches. I have a reference app that gives me the info I use with different steels.
So, its not that the process can be perfected for a particular steel. Its that for a person that makes various things, it changes from each thing and you never know exactly what to expect?
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:07 pm
by Reservoir Dog
Blast wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:02 am
A new, errr,steak knife... 21 inches long overall, 15 inch blade, oak handles, a brass guard soldered on. I guess it's yet another sharp object laying around the house until I find a buyer. Actually, I'm making a second for a matching set.
Sweet!
Is that full tang?
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:21 pm
by Blast
Reservoir Dog wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:07 pm
Blast wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:02 am
A new, errr,steak knife... 21 inches long overall, 15 inch blade, oak handles, a brass guard soldered on. I guess it's yet another sharp object laying around the house until I find a buyer. Actually, I'm making a second for a matching set.
Sweet!
Is that full tang?
Yeah, full tang. I was spending time sharpening and cutting to get the best edge. Next couple will have fullers to lighten them up.
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:25 pm
by Blast
Animal wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:06 pm
Blast wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:04 pm
Animal wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:44 pm
Blast wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:41 pm
It is. The quench is the sudden cooling of the metal, but not all react the same way or the same speed. I'm still scratching my head at some of the chemical structures and crystallization. Martzite, austenite, and 1 other I can never remember. Anyway, due to allotting metals and all that the crystallization happens at different speeds. Most high carbons are good with a simple oil quench but you need to warm it up to around 125 to 140 degrees to reduce its viscosity and get better contact otherwise the flashboiling oil doesn't make good contact with the steel. Some steel needs a faster medium to get more hardness, a lot of the medium carbon steels are like this and those are the water quenching steels.
There are a shit ton of superstitions and misinformation about the process too. "Only move the knife in this direction or it'll warp" type of shit.
I haven't worked on a Damascus billet to completion, my first is leaning against the wall waiting on me to get a fresh bottle of propane, but they touched on the speed of cooling and amount the different steels contract a couple times. Where some of the layers are faster cooling than others and if they aren't layered evenly you'll get a warp. Some people go so far as to count hammer strikes on each side.
Big factories that have to quench large quantities in an assembly type process must have that down to a repeatable process. Where they know it will work every time with almost 100% certainty, right?
They do, there are also companies that will do small batches. I have a reference app that gives me the info I use with different steels.
So, its not that the process can be perfected for a particular steel. Its that for a person that makes various things, it changes from each thing and you never know exactly what to expect?
If you used the same steel for every knife, with a programed machine to grind and shape it from starting stock and heat treated it in a programmable oven you would get almost identical results every time. You may get variations due to minimal variances in the steel or older oil.
If you introduce work done by hand or judged by eye you will get variations in the thickness that can cause issues in the heat treat.
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:25 am
by Blast
It's assembled...
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:01 am
by JCW
Blast wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:25 am
It's assembled...
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:59 pm
by Animal
any bows or imperfections in the blade? What will you do with the handle, wrap it?
and that "It will Keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllll" guy drives me crazy!
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:17 pm
by Reservoir Dog
Blast wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:25 am
It's assembled...
Does the fuller go all the way through the blade? Is that wood I can see through it or is that a reflection?
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:40 pm
by Animal
that must just be a reflection. surely it doesn't have a gap in the middle of the blade.
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:32 pm
by JCW
Animal wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:59 pm
any bows or imperfections in the blade? What will you do with the handle, wrap it?
and that "It will Keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllll" guy drives me crazy!
Why? That's the best part of the show for me.
Not a fan of the new host though.
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 5:37 pm
by Blast
The blade is straight. I had to do some serious hand filing to fix a mistake I made on the grinder. The fuller runs 2/3s the length of the blade but does not go all the way through. It's a reflection. Handle is hickory and is going to get a leather and string wrap for a better grip. Whole thing is about 2.5 pounds.
That is a fun part of the show. As I get more experience I find myself yelling at the smith's a bit more.
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 5:39 pm
by Biker
Nice work. Looks like it would be heavier then 2.5 pounds
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 6:00 pm
by Blast
Biker wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 5:39 pm
Nice work. Looks like it would be heavier then 2.5 pounds
That's the purpose of the fuller. Balance is a bit forward but where it should be for this type of sword, 6 inches in front of the guard. Gives it a good chop but still a decent amount of control of the tip for five work trying to get to the squishy parts under gaps in armor.
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:22 pm
by Blast
Did a few hair pins recently as I'm trying to get ready for spring craft shows. The orchid hair pin was a passion in the ass just because I have a stick welder instead of a little mig or Flux core. Shaping it took about 2 hours of cold work on the anvil and is finished with a hot brushed brass and clear coat. The barrette and leaf hair pins were finished with Johnsons paste wax applied hot. The other barrete has been deemed a little heavy so I'll call it a brooch instead.
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:52 pm
by disco.moon
Those are bad ass!! If you took that stuff to a Renaissance Faire you'd make a killing!
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 1:11 pm
by Blast
disco.moon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:52 pm
Those are bad ass!! If you took that stuff to a Renaissance Faire you'd make a killing!
Thanks Disco, In working to trying that some time.
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:44 pm
by pork
Renaissance Faire
lol people actual go to these?
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:27 pm
by stonedmegman
pork wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:44 pm
Renaissance Faire
lol people actual go to these?
I've never been but I know they have a Shakespearean festival every year in Stratford Ontario.
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:37 pm
by disco.moon
pork wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:44 pm
Renaissance Faire
lol people actual go to these?
Of course! People who maintain a sense of whimsy and delight you killjoy. There's a big one near me with a whole village and such. Turkey legs, jousting, mead, jewelry making, scavenger hunts, a kissing bridge, and gymnasts!
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:28 pm
by Blast
I've yet to go to one, but in the blacksmithing community there are many who do stuff like that or reenactments, I've been asked if I would be willing to demonstrate at a local park's pioneer festival.
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:32 pm
by pork
disco.moon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:37 pm
pork wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:44 pm
Renaissance Faire
lol people actual go to these?
Of course! People who maintain a sense of whimsy and delight you killjoy. There's a big one near me with a whole village and such. Turkey legs, jousting, mead, jewelry making, scavenger hunts, a kissing bridge, and gymnasts!
sounds like so much fun. have fun with the gymnasts and say hi to hawk for me.
Re: Recent projects
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:46 pm
by hawkfan8812
pork wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 9:32 pm
disco.moon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:37 pm
pork wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:44 pm
Renaissance Faire
lol people actual go to these?
Of course! People who maintain a sense of whimsy and delight you killjoy. There's a big one near me with a whole village and such. Turkey legs, jousting, mead, jewelry making, scavenger hunts, a kissing bridge, and gymnasts!
sounds like so much fun. have fun with the gymnasts and say hi to hawk for me.
I will sword fight you!