WWIII?

[Animal]

the US asked Israel to stay on the sidelines during the Iraq war.

Totally, AIPAC was pushing for an invasion of Iraq involving Israeli soldiers until the Neocons decided it was more important to keep the Jordanians and Saudi Arabians involved and told them to sit it out.

https://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03 ... index.html

so if you know Israel was asked to sit out of the war in Iraq, why are you surprised that Israel didn't get involved in the war in Iraq?

I didn't say I was surprised. I am upset they are lobbying us to fight wars they won't be a part of. Pretty shitty thing to do to an "ally".

its hard to follow your logic here. the US specifically asked Israel to stay out of the Gulf War because the US needed the coalition of Arab Nations that surrounded Iraq and they were afraid that those nations would not line up along side Israel. That seems pretty simple to understand. You are upset that they agreed to that?

[Burn1dwn]

the US asked Israel to stay on the sidelines during the Iraq war.

Totally, AIPAC was pushing for an invasion of Iraq involving Israeli soldiers until the Neocons decided it was more important to keep the Jordanians and Saudi Arabians involved and told them to sit it out.

https://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03 ... index.html

so if you know Israel was asked to sit out of the war in Iraq, why are you surprised that Israel didn't get involved in the war in Iraq?

I didn't say I was surprised. I am upset they are lobbying us to fight wars they won't be a part of. Pretty shitty thing to do to an "ally".

its hard to follow your logic here. the US specifically asked Israel to stay out of the Gulf War because the US needed the coalition of Arab Nations that surrounded Iraq and they were afraid that those nations would not line up along side Israel. That seems pretty simple to understand. You are upset that they agreed to that?

My logic is that Israel and their lobby (and Bibi) encouraged wars they would not fight that cost American blood and treasure. Open your eyes and start to be leary of your "allies" that use you for their benefit.

[CentralTexasCrude]

the US asked Israel to stay on the sidelines during the Iraq war.

Totally, AIPAC was pushing for an invasion of Iraq involving Israeli soldiers until the Neocons decided it was more important to keep the Jordanians and Saudi Arabians involved and told them to sit it out.

https://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03 ... index.html

so if you know Israel was asked to sit out of the war in Iraq, why are you surprised that Israel didn't get involved in the war in Iraq?

I didn't say I was surprised. I am upset they are lobbying us to fight wars they won't be a part of. Pretty shitty thing to do to an "ally".

its hard to follow your logic here. the US specifically asked Israel to stay out of the Gulf War because the US needed the coalition of Arab Nations that surrounded Iraq and they were afraid that those nations would not line up along side Israel. That seems pretty simple to understand. You are upset that they agreed to that?

My logic is that Israel and their lobby (and Bibi) encouraged wars they would not fight that cost American blood and treasure. Open your eyes and start to be leary of your "allies" that use you for their benefit.

All due respect, I couldn't disagree with this statement any more fully. It totally ignores the history on both sides going back almost 80 years.

[Burn1dwn]

Totally, AIPAC was pushing for an invasion of Iraq involving Israeli soldiers until the Neocons decided it was more important to keep the Jordanians and Saudi Arabians involved and told them to sit it out.

https://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03 ... index.html

so if you know Israel was asked to sit out of the war in Iraq, why are you surprised that Israel didn't get involved in the war in Iraq?

I didn't say I was surprised. I am upset they are lobbying us to fight wars they won't be a part of. Pretty shitty thing to do to an "ally".

its hard to follow your logic here. the US specifically asked Israel to stay out of the Gulf War because the US needed the coalition of Arab Nations that surrounded Iraq and they were afraid that those nations would not line up along side Israel. That seems pretty simple to understand. You are upset that they agreed to that?

My logic is that Israel and their lobby (and Bibi) encouraged wars they would not fight that cost American blood and treasure. Open your eyes and start to be leary of your "allies" that use you for their benefit.

All due respect, I couldn't disagree with this statement any more fully. It totally ignores the history on both sides going back almost 80 years.

How does the ongoing dispute between Israel and the Palestinian non-nation population change the fact that Israel uses the US and its politicians as a resource and supplement to their regional power?

Mostly through lobbying and lecturing for Israel's benefit.

Defintely not as a mutually benificial relationship like alliances should be.

[CentralTexasCrude]

so if you know Israel was asked to sit out of the war in Iraq, why are you surprised that Israel didn't get involved in the war in Iraq?

I didn't say I was surprised. I am upset they are lobbying us to fight wars they won't be a part of. Pretty shitty thing to do to an "ally".

its hard to follow your logic here. the US specifically asked Israel to stay out of the Gulf War because the US needed the coalition of Arab Nations that surrounded Iraq and they were afraid that those nations would not line up along side Israel. That seems pretty simple to understand. You are upset that they agreed to that?

My logic is that Israel and their lobby (and Bibi) encouraged wars they would not fight that cost American blood and treasure. Open your eyes and start to be leary of your "allies" that use you for their benefit.

All due respect, I couldn't disagree with this statement any more fully. It totally ignores the history on both sides going back almost 80 years.

How does the ongoing dispute between Israel and the Palestinian non-nation population change the fact that Israel uses the US and its politicians as a resource and supplement to their regional power?

Mostly through lobbying and lecturing for Israel's benefit.

Defintely not as a mutually benificial relationship like alliances should be.

You are lens focused on the current situation at the cost of ignoring the last 80 years of history. Throw out the fact that since WW2 and our rise to global policemen, we have always taken a dim view on mass bullying by stronger powers invading weaker ones (Israel being attacked by 5 Arab armies the DAY their nation was declared 1947/ 1968, 1973 same thing). It's the fact that in that very sensitive, volatile area (ME) during the red hot Cold War 1950's- 1990's (hottest outside W Europe), Israel was always our staunchest (along with Saudi Arabia) Allies and anchor. Also what you can't throw out is that Israel has for 40 years offered the political authority of the Palestinians people (PLO, HAMAS, whoever) their own homeland in their own tiny country. Turned down flat. Know why? Because they each had as their stated major objective the total destruction of the Israeli State and the murder of all it's citizens. Oct 7th pretty much proved that.

[Burn1dwn]

I didn't say I was surprised. I am upset they are lobbying us to fight wars they won't be a part of. Pretty shitty thing to do to an "ally".

its hard to follow your logic here. the US specifically asked Israel to stay out of the Gulf War because the US needed the coalition of Arab Nations that surrounded Iraq and they were afraid that those nations would not line up along side Israel. That seems pretty simple to understand. You are upset that they agreed to that?

My logic is that Israel and their lobby (and Bibi) encouraged wars they would not fight that cost American blood and treasure. Open your eyes and start to be leary of your "allies" that use you for their benefit.

All due respect, I couldn't disagree with this statement any more fully. It totally ignores the history on both sides going back almost 80 years.

How does the ongoing dispute between Israel and the Palestinian non-nation population change the fact that Israel uses the US and its politicians as a resource and supplement to their regional power?

Mostly through lobbying and lecturing for Israel's benefit.

Defintely not as a mutually benificial relationship like alliances should be.

You are lens focused on the current situation at the cost of ignoring the last 80 years of history. Throw out the fact that since WW2 and our rise to global policemen, we have always taken a dim view on mass bullying by stronger powers invading weaker ones (Israel being attacked by 5 Arab armies the DAY their nation was declared 1947/ 1968, 1973 same thing). It's the fact that in that very sensitive, volatile area (ME) during the red hot Cold War 1950's- 1990's (hottest outside W Europe), Israel was always our staunchest (along with Saudi Arabia) Allies and anchor. Also what you can't throw out is that Israel has for 40 years offered the political authority of the Palestinians people (PLO, HAMAS, whoever) their own homeland in their own tiny country. Turned down flat. Know why? Because they each had as their stated major objective the total destruction of the Israeli State and the murder of all it's citizens. Oct 7th pretty much proved that.

Name one thing that Israel did for the US in the Middle East besides cost us money and lives. Our main focus in the Middle East as a country should be oil. If we are the world police, liberating Palestinians should be high on the list.

[Burn1dwn]

Watch these....all 6 parts...

[CentralTexasCrude]

its hard to follow your logic here. the US specifically asked Israel to stay out of the Gulf War because the US needed the coalition of Arab Nations that surrounded Iraq and they were afraid that those nations would not line up along side Israel. That seems pretty simple to understand. You are upset that they agreed to that?

My logic is that Israel and their lobby (and Bibi) encouraged wars they would not fight that cost American blood and treasure. Open your eyes and start to be leary of your "allies" that use you for their benefit.

All due respect, I couldn't disagree with this statement any more fully. It totally ignores the history on both sides going back almost 80 years.

How does the ongoing dispute between Israel and the Palestinian non-nation population change the fact that Israel uses the US and its politicians as a resource and supplement to their regional power?

Mostly through lobbying and lecturing for Israel's benefit.

Defintely not as a mutually benificial relationship like alliances should be.

You are lens focused on the current situation at the cost of ignoring the last 80 years of history. Throw out the fact that since WW2 and our rise to global policemen, we have always taken a dim view on mass bullying by stronger powers invading weaker ones (Israel being attacked by 5 Arab armies the DAY their nation was declared 1947/ 1968, 1973 same thing). It's the fact that in that very sensitive, volatile area (ME) during the red hot Cold War 1950's- 1990's (hottest outside W Europe), Israel was always our staunchest (along with Saudi Arabia) Allies and anchor. Also what you can't throw out is that Israel has for 40 years offered the political authority of the Palestinians people (PLO, HAMAS, whoever) their own homeland in their own tiny country. Turned down flat. Know why? Because they each had as their stated major objective the total destruction of the Israeli State and the murder of all it's citizens. Oct 7th pretty much proved that.

Name one thing that Israel did for the US in the Middle East besides cost us money and lives. Our main focus in the Middle East as a country should be oil. If we are the world police, liberating Palestinians should be high on the list.

Yeah, those videos of most Palestinians crying with joy, celebrating with ecstasy as the Twin Towers collapsed on 9-11 and 3,000 US citizens were slaughtered should just be ignored. I'm suggesting your lens focus is all screwed up.

[Burn1dwn]

My logic is that Israel and their lobby (and Bibi) encouraged wars they would not fight that cost American blood and treasure. Open your eyes and start to be leary of your "allies" that use you for their benefit.

All due respect, I couldn't disagree with this statement any more fully. It totally ignores the history on both sides going back almost 80 years.

How does the ongoing dispute between Israel and the Palestinian non-nation population change the fact that Israel uses the US and its politicians as a resource and supplement to their regional power?

Mostly through lobbying and lecturing for Israel's benefit.

Defintely not as a mutually benificial relationship like alliances should be.

You are lens focused on the current situation at the cost of ignoring the last 80 years of history. Throw out the fact that since WW2 and our rise to global policemen, we have always taken a dim view on mass bullying by stronger powers invading weaker ones (Israel being attacked by 5 Arab armies the DAY their nation was declared 1947/ 1968, 1973 same thing). It's the fact that in that very sensitive, volatile area (ME) during the red hot Cold War 1950's- 1990's (hottest outside W Europe), Israel was always our staunchest (along with Saudi Arabia) Allies and anchor. Also what you can't throw out is that Israel has for 40 years offered the political authority of the Palestinians people (PLO, HAMAS, whoever) their own homeland in their own tiny country. Turned down flat. Know why? Because they each had as their stated major objective the total destruction of the Israeli State and the murder of all it's citizens. Oct 7th pretty much proved that.

Name one thing that Israel did for the US in the Middle East besides cost us money and lives. Our main focus in the Middle East as a country should be oil. If we are the world police, liberating Palestinians should be high on the list.

Yeah, those videos of most Palestinians crying with joy, celebrating with ecstasy as the Twin Towers collapsed on 9-11 and 3,000 US citizens were slaughtered should just be ignored. I'm suggesting your lens focus is all screwed up.

You keep bringing Palestinians into the equation. I ask you again, name one thing that has blindly supporting Israel has done for the country we live in?

[CentralTexasCrude]

All due respect, I couldn't disagree with this statement any more fully. It totally ignores the history on both sides going back almost 80 years.

How does the ongoing dispute between Israel and the Palestinian non-nation population change the fact that Israel uses the US and its politicians as a resource and supplement to their regional power?

Mostly through lobbying and lecturing for Israel's benefit.

Defintely not as a mutually benificial relationship like alliances should be.

You are lens focused on the current situation at the cost of ignoring the last 80 years of history. Throw out the fact that since WW2 and our rise to global policemen, we have always taken a dim view on mass bullying by stronger powers invading weaker ones (Israel being attacked by 5 Arab armies the DAY their nation was declared 1947/ 1968, 1973 same thing). It's the fact that in that very sensitive, volatile area (ME) during the red hot Cold War 1950's- 1990's (hottest outside W Europe), Israel was always our staunchest (along with Saudi Arabia) Allies and anchor. Also what you can't throw out is that Israel has for 40 years offered the political authority of the Palestinians people (PLO, HAMAS, whoever) their own homeland in their own tiny country. Turned down flat. Know why? Because they each had as their stated major objective the total destruction of the Israeli State and the murder of all it's citizens. Oct 7th pretty much proved that.

Name one thing that Israel did for the US in the Middle East besides cost us money and lives. Our main focus in the Middle East as a country should be oil. If we are the world police, liberating Palestinians should be high on the list.

Yeah, those videos of most Palestinians crying with joy, celebrating with ecstasy as the Twin Towers collapsed on 9-11 and 3,000 US citizens were slaughtered should just be ignored. I'm suggesting your lens focus is all screwed up.

You keep bringing Palestinians into the equation. I ask you again, name one thing that has blindly supporting Israel has done for the country we live in?

A major portion of our Country's victory in the nearly half century Cold War against Communism. And that just covers that.

[Burn1dwn]

A major portion of our Country's victory in the nearly half century Cold War against Communism. And that just covers that.

Major portion? I disagree with that.

If anything the ME is one of the main hot spots left after the Collapse of the Soviet Union.

We bribed Egypt & Israel to make peace, which is what jump started the Islamic Fundie movement in the ME that is still raging to this day (and cost us dearly). And now Egypt is cozy with Russia while taking huge amounts of aid from the US. You think Russia calls that a defeat?

[CentralTexasCrude]

A major portion of our Country's victory in the nearly half century Cold War against Communism. And that just covers that.

Major portion? I disagree with that.

If anything the ME is one of the main hot spots left after the Collapse of the Soviet Union.

We bribed Egypt & Israel to make peace, which is what jump started the Islamic Fundie movement in the ME that is still raging to this day (and cost us dearly). And now Egypt is cozy with Russia while taking huge amounts of aid from the US. You think Russia calls that a defeat?

Notice you called them "Russia" instead of the Soviet Union? You don't get a bigger defeat than that on the World stage. A lot of Blood, Sweat and Money went into that helped by staunch allies like Israel.

[Animal]

i gotta agree whole heartedly with CTC on this one. Being pro-Palestinian might be the new hipster thing to do, but it disregards many many years of history and many smart people that came before us. I learned a long time ago that if things have been done a certain way for a long time, then there is probably a good reason for it. and i don't need to see any anti israeli propoganda videos, I'm sure there's tons of those out there.

[stonedmegman]

i gotta agree whole heartedly with CTC on this one. Being pro-Palestinian might be the new hipster thing to do, but it disregards many many years of history and many smart people that came before us. I learned a long time ago that if things have been done a certain way for a long time, then there is probably a good reason for it. and i don't need to see any anti israeli propoganda videos, I'm sure there's tons of those out there.

I guess pigs are flying.

[Animal]

i gotta agree whole heartedly with CTC on this one. Being pro-Palestinian might be the new hipster thing to do, but it disregards many many years of history and many smart people that came before us. I learned a long time ago that if things have been done a certain way for a long time, then there is probably a good reason for it. and i don't need to see any anti israeli propoganda videos, I'm sure there's tons of those out there.

I guess pigs are flying.

I know. it was difficult to type that.

[CentralTexasCrude]

Nah. It's just reality.

[Reservoir Dog]

i gotta agree whole heartedly with CTC on this one. Being pro-Palestinian might be the new hipster thing to do, but it disregards many many years of history and many smart people that came before us. I learned a long time ago that if things have been done a certain way for a long time, then there is probably a good reason for it. and i don't need to see any anti israeli propoganda videos, I'm sure there's tons of those out there.

I guess pigs are flying.

I know. it was difficult to type that.

[Animal]

the pigs are in search of cooler climates for the summer months. large coveys of pigs have been seen heading north in recent weeks.

[Burn1dwn]

I learned a long time ago that if things have been done a certain way for a long time, then there is probably a good reason for it.

Unless we are talking about slavery or disagreeing with CTC. Right?

[Animal]

I learned a long time ago that if things have been done a certain way for a long time, then there is probably a good reason for it.

Unless we are talking about slavery or disagreeing with CTC. Right?

yeah. its the same as slavery.

[Burn1dwn]

I learned a long time ago that if things have been done a certain way for a long time, then there is probably a good reason for it.

Unless we are talking about slavery or disagreeing with CTC. Right?

yeah. its the same as slavery.

I was agreeing with you. How long something is done, is an indication of how wise it is to continue to practice. Those are the outliers.

[CHEEZY17]

Israel is certainly no angel. We all know this.
In the region however they are a western democracy surrounded by fucknuts. They have free and legitimate elections, women have rights, they are a free society, they recognize and value research, science and the advancement of society...that means something in the grand scheme of things. Historically we could generally count on them for intelligence assistance and even as a proxy if need be.
Does it mean we should blindly support them? Of course not but I think it does mean we have to recognize and understand their unique situation in the region.

[Animal]

I learned a long time ago that if things have been done a certain way for a long time, then there is probably a good reason for it.

Unless we are talking about slavery or disagreeing with CTC. Right?

yeah. its the same as slavery.

I was agreeing with you. How long something is done, is an indication of how wise it is to continue to practice. Those are the outliers.

or plowing with horses. which would also be an outlier if that was the same thing. but it isn't.

[Burn1dwn]

Israel is certainly no angel. We all know this.
In the region however they are a western democracy surrounded by fucknuts. They have free and legitimate elections, women have rights, they are a free society, they recognize and value research, science and the advancement of society...that means something in the grand scheme of things. Historically we could generally count on them for intelligence assistance and even as a proxy if need be.
Does it mean we should blindly support them? Of course not but I think it does mean we have to recognize and understand their unique situation in the region.

100% agree with this. I would just add that Israel has a lot of fucknuts in their country too. Fucknuts that keep growing in numbers and power. These fucknuts also help keep the perpetual war with Palestinians (and Iran to a degree) going. The current leader of Israel has exploited the fucknuts to remain in power.

How come we can't exert our influence to "encourage" a return to the middle in Israeli politics? AIPAC sure as hell meddles in our politics and pushes for certain leaders and action that benefit their country.

Asking Israel to make an effort at a diplomatic resolution to their battle with the non-nation populations on its borders an seems like a reasonable request for our support. Especially when their extreme agenda costs us more money and political capital the longer it carries on.