Different verse, same song. Campaign finance reform arguably has even wider opposition than gun control. Democrat reps by and large are at least going to support gun control, while Republican reps by and large are going to universally oppose it. Campaign finance is even more murky because both sides have their troughs to feed from that they're gonna protect. But if you wanna argue to dismantle the gun lobby specifically, then let's talk, push it forward.Animal wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 1:42 am then work on campaign finance laws. the object here isn't to find out why you can't get anything done, the object is to find a place to start that works. lots of jobs we build, we have to start by building detours and bridges that have nothing to do with the finished product, we just have to build them to move the traffic out of the way so the real road can be built. you have to do what you have to do.
Another mass shooting
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Re: Another mass shooting
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Re: Another mass shooting
If it was a “gun free zone“ then a law abiding Armed citizen would not be there to stop him.saltydog wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:57 amIt was at a bar. What difference does that make?Antknot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:40 amSeatbelts and fire extinguishers are good things. Especially when are used properly.saltydog wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:33 amI bet you think seatbelts and fire alarms are unnecessary too.Antknot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:30 am Re: Red Flag Laws, I don’t think that the red flag gun laws as implemented are valid or fair. How would you like to be going through a divorce and have your spouse claimed that you were crazy or had threatened to shoot them when you hadn’t.? How would you like a neighbor that’s pissed off at you because your dog crapped in your lawn reporting you for a red flag law? There’s too much chance for abuse
Fuck discomfort when people are getting executed on a weekly basis.
Does anyone know if the shooting locations in Maine were gun free zones or not?
Last edited by Antknot on Fri Oct 27, 2023 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- dot
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- Animal
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Re: Another mass shooting
if that's what you think is your best approach. Although I know this is just one of your smart ass remarks.saltydog wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 1:49 amWe'll start in your state, is that ok with you?Animal wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 1:42 amthen work on campaign finance laws. the object here isn't to find out why you can't get anything done, the object is to find a place to start that works. lots of jobs we build, we have to start by building detours and bridges that have nothing to do with the finished product, we just have to build them to move the traffic out of the way so the real road can be built. you have to do what you have to do.dot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 1:37 amVery much not the point because you are not the arbiter of these things. The people you elect who are then bought and paid for by the gun lobby are who put a stop to the things that even we agree on. In case you forgot, this is regarding:
The people who keep blocking the things even we agree need to be done do not budge. They're given their orders along with check after check. Their starting point is the same as their ending point. Status quo.Animal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 10:50 pm I honestly don't know. Trying to figure out gun laws is not my thing and I don't know a heck of a lot about gun laws. But I know that every negotiation is possible. Everyone has something they will bargain. Even the people that have something that isn't for sale can be bought out. That's just a fact.
So, if people really wanted to solve this or at least start making progress, they would figure out some of those things. Instead of asking for the whole thing or starting at a point that everyone knows no one will agree to.
If you have ever been in mediation, they first get the two sides to lay out there best and worst offers and then they start working toward the middle ground. I always hear people bitching but I never see much being done.
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Re: Another mass shooting
then start there. dismantle the gun lobby.dot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 1:50 amDifferent verse, same song. Campaign finance reform arguably has even wider opposition than gun control. Democrat reps by and large are at least going to support gun control, while Republican reps by and large are going to universally oppose it. Campaign finance is even more murky because both sides have their troughs to feed from that they're gonna protect. But if you wanna argue to dismantle the gun lobby specifically, then let's talk, push it forward.Animal wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 1:42 am then work on campaign finance laws. the object here isn't to find out why you can't get anything done, the object is to find a place to start that works. lots of jobs we build, we have to start by building detours and bridges that have nothing to do with the finished product, we just have to build them to move the traffic out of the way so the real road can be built. you have to do what you have to do.
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Re: Another mass shooting
I'm wondering where they are going to find the dead body of the Maine shooter.
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- Animal
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Re: Another mass shooting
Antknot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 4:04 amIf it was a “gun free zone“ then a law abiding Armed citizen would not be there to stop him.saltydog wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:57 amIt was at a bar. What difference does that make?Antknot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:40 amSeatbelts and fire extinguishers are good things. Especially when are used properly.saltydog wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:33 amI bet you think seatbelts and fire alarms are unnecessary too.Antknot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:30 am Re: Red Flag Laws, I don’t think that the red flag gun laws as implemented are valid or fair. How would you like to be going through a divorce and have your spouse claimed that you were crazy or had threatened to shoot them when you hadn’t.? How would you like a neighbor that’s pissed off at you because your dog crapped in your lawn reporting you for a red flag law? There’s too much chance for abuse
Fuck discomfort when people are getting executed on a weekly basis.
Does anyone know if the shooting locations in Maine were gun free zones or not?
- saltydog
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Re: Another mass shooting
Yeah, the "good guy with a gun" mentality fails on every level when COPS themselves refuse to engage with people using military grade weapons of destruction.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
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- saltydog
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Re: Another mass shooting
Here's my solution restart the weapons ban from 1994? under Clinton.
It worked.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
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Re: Another mass shooting
Give me a wild assed guess about the number Of legal guns used in Chicago on any weekend.
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Re: Another mass shooting
Actually it started in a bowling alley.saltydog wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:57 amIt was at a bar. What difference does that make?Antknot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:40 amSeatbelts and fire extinguishers are good things. Especially when are used properly.saltydog wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:33 amI bet you think seatbelts and fire alarms are unnecessary too.Antknot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:30 am Re: Red Flag Laws, I don’t think that the red flag gun laws as implemented are valid or fair. How would you like to be going through a divorce and have your spouse claimed that you were crazy or had threatened to shoot them when you hadn’t.? How would you like a neighbor that’s pissed off at you because your dog crapped in your lawn reporting you for a red flag law? There’s too much chance for abuse
Fuck discomfort when people are getting executed on a weekly basis.
Does anyone know if the shooting locations in Maine were gun free zones or not?
QANON IS JUST SCIENTOLOGY FOR HILLBILLIES
- saltydog
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Re: Another mass shooting
I'm sure families of the victims find that comforting.stonedmegman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 7:12 pmActually it started in a bowling alley.saltydog wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:57 amIt was at a bar. What difference does that make?Antknot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:40 amSeatbelts and fire extinguishers are good things. Especially when are used properly.saltydog wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:33 amI bet you think seatbelts and fire alarms are unnecessary too.Antknot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:30 am Re: Red Flag Laws, I don’t think that the red flag gun laws as implemented are valid or fair. How would you like to be going through a divorce and have your spouse claimed that you were crazy or had threatened to shoot them when you hadn’t.? How would you like a neighbor that’s pissed off at you because your dog crapped in your lawn reporting you for a red flag law? There’s too much chance for abuse
Fuck discomfort when people are getting executed on a weekly basis.
Does anyone know if the shooting locations in Maine were gun free zones or not?
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
- saltydog
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Re: Another mass shooting
Gun violence is inevitable?Antknot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 7:05 pmGive me a wild assed guess about the number Of legal guns used in Chicago on any weekend.
Explain how this doesn't happen anywhere else on the globe, but almost entirely in the US.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
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Re: Another mass shooting
Chicago is a glaring example of how gun control laws don’t work.saltydog wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 7:28 pmGun violence is inevitable?Antknot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 7:05 pmGive me a wild assed guess about the number Of legal guns used in Chicago on any weekend.
Explain how this doesn't happen anywhere else on the globe, but almost entirely in the US.
There is no one size fits all solution to the problem. It’s a cultural problem that will take decades to correct if that’s even possible.
- saltydog
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Re: Another mass shooting
Correct.Antknot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:40 pmChicago is a glaring example of how gun control laws don’t work.saltydog wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 7:28 pmGun violence is inevitable?Antknot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 7:05 pmGive me a wild assed guess about the number Of legal guns used in Chicago on any weekend.
Explain how this doesn't happen anywhere else on the globe, but almost entirely in the US.
There is no one size fits all solution to the problem. It’s a cultural problem that will take decades to correct if that’s even possible.
Gun culture.
The problem is not that there is evil in the world, the problem is that there is good. Because otherwise, who would care?
- dot
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Re: Another mass shooting
You may need to get more sleep, because your logic fails. Don't forget that the assault weapons ban from 94 to 04 worked. Ten years of data showed a decline across the country despite the, at the time, deadliest school shooting in Columbine inside that ten years. But you'd have us do nothing because since then, the ban was allowed to expire and bought and paid for politicians made sure nothing was put in its place afterwards. That has allowed a near immediate increase in gun violence from then to today, and that is including Chicago. And so because your guys made sure nothing protected the country in its wake, you are now pointing to the lack of gun control laws as proof that gun control laws don't work.
In actuality, there is a one size fits all solution to the problem. It was tried before and worked. Disinformation for the sake of maintaining the murderous status quo makes you a special kind of asshole.
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Re: Another mass shooting
Righties wanted a culture of guns.saltydog wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 9:10 pmCorrect.Antknot wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:40 pmChicago is a glaring example of how gun control laws don’t work.
There is no one size fits all solution to the problem. It’s a cultural problem that will take decades to correct if that’s even possible.
Gun culture.
They got a culture of guns.
Now they blame everyone and everything, except themselves, for the culture of guns that they created.
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Re: Another mass shooting
America’s unique, enduring gun problem, explained
The factors that lead to tragedies like the Lewiston shooting are deeply ingrained in US politics, culture, and law.
At least 18 people have been killed and more than a dozen injured in a mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine, the northern state’s second-largest city.
The shooter wasn’t immediately apprehended and appears to have opened fire at two locations on Wednesday evening: a bowling alley and a bar. State and local law enforcement asked residents of Lewiston and the surrounding area to shelter in place as officials worked to find the shooter. Schools and many businesses in the area have been shuttered.
The shooter, whose picture has been shared as part of the search effort, is believed to be a 40-year-old white man who worked as a firearms teacher and a US Army reservist. He is facing eight counts of murder so far, according to Maine state police.
The Lewiston shooting was one of several hundred mass shootings this year; and it follows a number of other mass shootings this week, including in Colorado, Chicago, and Louisiana. This kind of violence is unique to the US and should not be normalized.
No other high-income country has suffered such a high death toll from gun violence. Every day, 120 Americans die at the end of a gun, including suicides and homicides, an average of 43,375 per year. According to the latest available analysis of data from 2015 to 2019, the US gun homicide rate was 26 times that of other high-income countries; its gun suicide rate was nearly 12 times higher. Mass shootings, defined as attacks in which at least four people are injured or killed excluding the shooter, have been on the rise since 2015, peaking at 686 incidents in 2021. There have been 565 mass shootings in the US in 2023 as of late October, including the Lewiston shooting, and at the current pace, the US is set to eclipse the 2021 record this year.
Despite that sheer carnage, however, the political debate over how to ensure that guns don’t fall into the hands of people who may hurt themselves and others has long proved intractable. Last year, Congress reached a deal on limited gun reforms for the first time in nearly 30 years in the wake of a shooting at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas — the deadliest school shooting since 2012.
But those narrow reforms clearly haven’t stopped America’s gun violence epidemic. The US’s expansive view of civilian gun ownership has been so ingrained in politics, in culture, and in the law since the nation’s founding that there’s no telling how many more people will die before federal lawmakers take further action. In that absence, many red states have loosened their gun laws over the last few years, rather than making it harder to obtain a gun.
“America is unique in that guns have always been present, there is wide civilian ownership, and the government hasn’t claimed more of a monopoly on them,” said David Yamane, a professor at Wake Forest University who studies American gun culture.
The US has a lot of guns, and more guns mean more gun deaths
It’s hard to estimate the number of privately owned guns in America since there is no countrywide database where people register whether they own guns, there is a thriving black market for them in the absence of strong federal gun trafficking laws, and people can manufacture their own guns with DIY kits or 3D printers. The gun lobby has also vehemently opposed federal legislation to track gun sales and establish a national handgun registry.
One estimate from the Small Arms Survey, a Swiss-based research project, found that there were approximately 390 million guns in circulation in the US in 2018, or about 120.5 firearms per 100 residents. That number has likely climbed in the years since, given that one in five households purchased a gun during the pandemic, though the 2018 estimate remains the most recent available. There has also been a significant increase in the number of guns manufactured and imported in the years since. But even without accounting for that increase, US gun ownership is still well above any other country: Yemen, which has the world’s second-highest level of gun ownership, has only 52.8 guns per 100 residents; in Iceland, it’s 31.7.
https://www.vox.com/23142734/lewiston-m ... s-shooting
The factors that lead to tragedies like the Lewiston shooting are deeply ingrained in US politics, culture, and law.
At least 18 people have been killed and more than a dozen injured in a mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine, the northern state’s second-largest city.
The shooter wasn’t immediately apprehended and appears to have opened fire at two locations on Wednesday evening: a bowling alley and a bar. State and local law enforcement asked residents of Lewiston and the surrounding area to shelter in place as officials worked to find the shooter. Schools and many businesses in the area have been shuttered.
The shooter, whose picture has been shared as part of the search effort, is believed to be a 40-year-old white man who worked as a firearms teacher and a US Army reservist. He is facing eight counts of murder so far, according to Maine state police.
The Lewiston shooting was one of several hundred mass shootings this year; and it follows a number of other mass shootings this week, including in Colorado, Chicago, and Louisiana. This kind of violence is unique to the US and should not be normalized.
No other high-income country has suffered such a high death toll from gun violence. Every day, 120 Americans die at the end of a gun, including suicides and homicides, an average of 43,375 per year. According to the latest available analysis of data from 2015 to 2019, the US gun homicide rate was 26 times that of other high-income countries; its gun suicide rate was nearly 12 times higher. Mass shootings, defined as attacks in which at least four people are injured or killed excluding the shooter, have been on the rise since 2015, peaking at 686 incidents in 2021. There have been 565 mass shootings in the US in 2023 as of late October, including the Lewiston shooting, and at the current pace, the US is set to eclipse the 2021 record this year.
Despite that sheer carnage, however, the political debate over how to ensure that guns don’t fall into the hands of people who may hurt themselves and others has long proved intractable. Last year, Congress reached a deal on limited gun reforms for the first time in nearly 30 years in the wake of a shooting at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas — the deadliest school shooting since 2012.
But those narrow reforms clearly haven’t stopped America’s gun violence epidemic. The US’s expansive view of civilian gun ownership has been so ingrained in politics, in culture, and in the law since the nation’s founding that there’s no telling how many more people will die before federal lawmakers take further action. In that absence, many red states have loosened their gun laws over the last few years, rather than making it harder to obtain a gun.
“America is unique in that guns have always been present, there is wide civilian ownership, and the government hasn’t claimed more of a monopoly on them,” said David Yamane, a professor at Wake Forest University who studies American gun culture.
The US has a lot of guns, and more guns mean more gun deaths
It’s hard to estimate the number of privately owned guns in America since there is no countrywide database where people register whether they own guns, there is a thriving black market for them in the absence of strong federal gun trafficking laws, and people can manufacture their own guns with DIY kits or 3D printers. The gun lobby has also vehemently opposed federal legislation to track gun sales and establish a national handgun registry.
One estimate from the Small Arms Survey, a Swiss-based research project, found that there were approximately 390 million guns in circulation in the US in 2018, or about 120.5 firearms per 100 residents. That number has likely climbed in the years since, given that one in five households purchased a gun during the pandemic, though the 2018 estimate remains the most recent available. There has also been a significant increase in the number of guns manufactured and imported in the years since. But even without accounting for that increase, US gun ownership is still well above any other country: Yemen, which has the world’s second-highest level of gun ownership, has only 52.8 guns per 100 residents; in Iceland, it’s 31.7.
https://www.vox.com/23142734/lewiston-m ... s-shooting
QANON IS JUST SCIENTOLOGY FOR HILLBILLIES
- peterosehaircut
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Re: Another mass shooting
Any reduction in gun violence during the "assault weapons ban" was not due to the law. Not a single semi automatic rifle was actually banned.
As a matter of fact more AR15s were produced during the decade the ban was in effect than the 30 years prior. It only banned certain cosmetic features.
As a matter of fact more AR15s were produced during the decade the ban was in effect than the 30 years prior. It only banned certain cosmetic features.
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Re: Another mass shooting
You know, enough is enough. This isnt the kind of world I want my children living in
- dot
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Re: Another mass shooting
The "assault weapons ban" is not as simple as its popularized name, nor is it as simple as your disinformation attempt.peterosehaircut wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:04 am Any reduction in gun violence during the "assault weapons ban" was not due to the law. Not a single semi automatic rifle was actually banned.
As a matter of fact more AR15s were produced during the decade the ban was in effect than the 30 years prior. It only banned certain cosmetic features.
You're welcome to dispute that it did not do any of those things via sourcing and facts, but not just rattling off from the gut denials because you are defensive over being part of the problem.The Act prohibited the manufacture, transfer, or possession of "semiautomatic assault weapons," as defined by the Act. "Weapons banned were identified either by specific make or model (including copies or duplicates thereof, in any caliber), or by specific characteristics that slightly varied according to whether the weapon was a pistol, rifle, or shotgun". The Act also prohibited the manufacture of "large capacity ammunition feeding devices" (LCAFDs) except for sale to government, law enforcement or military, though magazines made before the effective date ("pre-ban" magazines) were legal to possess & transfer.
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