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Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:13 pm
by Stapes
Biker wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 4:55 pm
Well thats nice, eh?
Fauci admits to LYING about herd immunity numbers to encourage vaccinations
This is not the first time that Fauci has admitted to deceiving the public for utilitarian purposes in regard to coronavirus.
Dr. Anthony Fauci admitted in an interview with The New York Times that he played around with the number of vaccinations required for herd immunity in order to subtly encourage Americans to get vaccinated.
"When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75 percent. Then, when newer surveys said 60 percent or more would take it, I thought, ‘I can nudge this up a bit,’ so I went to 80, 85."
Epidemiologists at the beginning of the pandemic had asserted that somewhere between 60 and 70 percent of Americans would need to receive the coronavirus vaccine in order for herd immunity to be established, figures which are still touted by the World Health Organization (WHO).
Dr. Fauci repeated such figures throughout the pandemic, but about a month ago he started to provide different, higher figures in interviews. In an interview given last month, Fauci suggested that up to 75 percent of Americans would need to be vaccinated in order to establish herd immunity. Just last week, Fauci said in an interview with CNBC that the rate of vaccination may need to be as high as 85 percent or greater.
Now Fauci is suggesting that up to 90 percent of the population requires vaccinations.
"We need to have some humility here," Fauci said. "We really don’t know what the real number is. I think the real range is somewhere between 70 to 90 percent. But, I’m not going to say 90 percent."
This is not the first time that Fauci has admitted to deceiving the public for utilitarian purposes in regard to coronavirus. In the early months of the pandemic, Fauci claimed that there is no reason to wear masks to prevent the spread of the virus as they probably would not work. He later admitted that masks are helpful for preventing the spread of the virus, and claimed that he said otherwise to prevent the public from stocking up on personal protective equipment when hospitals were in short supply of them.
Changing the declared herd immunity requirements were not entirely deceptive, however. The coronavirus spreading around the globe is novel, meaning it has never been seen in humans before, and scientific data regarding issues such as herd immunity was practically absent in the early months of the pandemic. In addition, the virus has mutated to become more contagious over time, with the new strain discovered in the UK in the past week being the most infectious yet.
Regardless, the main reason for playing around with the numbers appears to be that it would be discouraging to offer such a high vaccination rate to Americans when such numbers appear to be out of reach.
"We need to have some humility here," Fauci said. "We really don’t know what the real number is. I think the real range is somewhere between 70 to 90 percent. But, I’m not going to say 90 percent."
He thinks the 60 to 70 percent number is too low. I agree. The herd immunity argument is a myth and shouldn't even be part of the discussion. It doesn't exist.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/24/heal ... virus.html
In a telephone interview the next day, Dr. Fauci acknowledged that he had slowly but deliberately been moving the goal posts. He is doing so, he said, partly based on new science, and partly on his gut feeling that the country is finally ready to hear what he really thinks.
Hard as it may be to hear, he said, he believes that it may take close to 90 percent immunity to bring the virus to a halt — almost as much as is needed to stop a measles outbreak.
Asked about Dr. Fauci’s conclusions, prominent epidemiologists said that he might be proven right. The early range of 60 to 70 percent was almost undoubtedly too low, they said, and the virus is becoming more transmissible, so it will take greater herd immunity to stop it.
Dr. Fauci said that weeks ago, he had hesitated to publicly raise his estimate because many Americans seemed hesitant about vaccines, which they would need to accept almost universally in order for the country to achieve herd immunity.
Now that some polls are showing that many more Americans are ready, even eager, for vaccines, he said he felt he could deliver the tough message that the return to normal might take longer than anticipated.
“When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75 percent,” Dr. Fauci said. “Then, when newer surveys said 60 percent or more would take it, I thought, ‘I can nudge this up a bit,’ so I went to 80, 85.”
“We need to have some humility here,” he added. “We really don’t know what the real number is. I think the real range is somewhere between 70 to 90 percent. But, I’m not going to say 90 percent.”
Doing so might be discouraging to Americans, he said, because he is not sure there will be enough voluntary acceptance of vaccines to reach that goal. Although sentiments about vaccines in polls have bounced up and down this year, several current ones suggest that about 20 percent of Americans say they are unwilling to accept any vaccine.
Also, Dr. Fauci noted, a herd-immunity figure at 90 percent or above is in the range of the infectiousness of measles.
“I’d bet my house that Covid isn’t as contagious as measles,” he said.
Measles is thought to be the world’s most contagious disease; it can linger in the air for hours or drift through vents to infect people in other rooms. In some studies of outbreaks in crowded military barracks and student dormitories, it has kept transmitting until more than 95 percent of all residents are infected.
Interviews with epidemiologists regarding the degree of herd immunity needed to defeat the coronavirus produced a range of estimates, some of which were in line with Dr. Fauci’s. They also came with a warning: All answers are merely “guesstimates.”
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:44 pm
by Biker
Stapes wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:13 pm
The herd immunity argument is a myth and shouldn't even be part of the discussion.
I'll just leave this here to highlight your utter ignorance and stupidity.
Merry Christmas
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:47 pm
by Stapes
Biker wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:44 pm
Stapes wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:13 pm
The herd immunity argument is a myth and shouldn't even be part of the discussion.
I'll just leave this here to highlight your utter ignorance and stupidity.
Merry Christmas
You do that
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:15 pm
by Biker
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:32 pm
by Stapes
I know you're not bright enough to think outside of your own petty prejudices. The fact is there is only vaccine immunity........to worry about some mythical number to achieve "herd immunity" is ridiculous For all intents and purposes it does not exist. As soon as vaccinations start to slack off disease starts to reemerge. I don't care if it's measles or chicken pox.....you only get anti-bodies by getting a vaccine or surviving the illness.......if you haven't had either you are at risk.....the fucking herd isn't going to protect you.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:33 pm
by Biker
Stapes wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:32 pm
I know you're not bright enough to think outside of your own petty prejudices. The fact is there is only vaccine immunity........to worry about some mythical number to achieve "herd immunity" is ridiculous For all intents and purposes it does not exist. As soon as vaccinations start to slack off disease starts to reemerge. I don't care if it's measles or chicken pox.....you only get anti-bodies by getting a vaccine or surviving the illness.......if you haven't had either you are at risk.....the fucking herd isn't going to protect you.
HeyZeus youre a dense fuck. What do you think the vaccine replicates?
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:42 pm
by Stapes
Biker wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:33 pm
Stapes wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:32 pm
I know you're not bright enough to think outside of your own petty prejudices. The fact is there is only vaccine immunity........to worry about some mythical number to achieve "herd immunity" is ridiculous For all intents and purposes it does not exist. As soon as vaccinations start to slack off disease starts to reemerge. I don't care if it's measles or chicken pox.....you only get anti-bodies by getting a vaccine or surviving the illness.......if you haven't had either you are at risk.....the fucking herd isn't going to protect you.
HeyZeus youre a dense fuck. What do you think the vaccine replicates?
Then call it was it is....vaccine immunity. Herd immunity implies that there will be a natural protection for those who have no antibodies through either vaccination or infection from a virus when this MYTHICAL number is reached......it doesn't work.
There is only vaccine immunity....herd immunity is a myth. Go fuck yourself now and choke on your christmas ham
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:46 pm
by Biker
Stapes wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:42 pm
Biker wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:33 pm
Stapes wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:32 pm
I know you're not bright enough to think outside of your own petty prejudices. The fact is there is only vaccine immunity........to worry about some mythical number to achieve "herd immunity" is ridiculous For all intents and purposes it does not exist. As soon as vaccinations start to slack off disease starts to reemerge. I don't care if it's measles or chicken pox.....you only get anti-bodies by getting a vaccine or surviving the illness.......if you haven't had either you are at risk.....the fucking herd isn't going to protect you.
HeyZeus youre a dense fuck. What do you think the vaccine replicates?
Then call it was it is....vaccine immunity. Herd immunity implies that there will be a natural protection for those who have no antibodies through either vaccination or infection from a virus when this MYTHICAL number is reached......it doesn't work.
There is only vaccine immunity....herd immunity is a myth. Go fuck yourself now and choke on your christmas ham
Every time I think you couldnt be dumber, you keep raising the fucking bar. Well done
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 12:11 am
by Stapes
BigRedRetard wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 11:53 pm
Herd immunity (or community immunity) occurs when a high percentage of the community is immune to a disease (through vaccination and/or prior illness),
Nope. Sorry. It's a horrible term and as I said at the top of this discussion it shouldn't even be used. I can't stand that the media uses it or someone like Fauci doesn't push back on it. It's a non-science term used for pre-vaccine eras and doesn't belong anymore. We don't suffer 50% population deaths until a virus burns itself out anymore
Do you think if the population gets to 80% immunity the remaining 20% somehow get this miraculous immunity? Nope....just your odds of meeting someone infected goes down a bit. History has shown that doesn't work and breakouts happen all the time. You could have antibodies and still shed virus and infect someone else.....your immunity may only last 4 months and then you might get sick again. It's a terrible term with no science behind it.
All this herd immunity talk does is give the MAGATS and deniers a get out of jail free card to not have themselves vaccinated. We should be shooting for 100% VACCINE immunity.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 2:48 am
by FSchmertz
There's some evidence that the immunity due to vaccination is stronger than natural immunity, and may even be longer lasting.
If that's true then we'd be cutting the number of cases faster with immunizations than with folks getting the disease naturally.
Not to mention pretty much zero deaths via vaccination. Last I heard there were 300,000 deaths so far.
P.S. Yeah, "natural herd immunity" is a dumb idea.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:43 am
by Charliesheen
It’s certain the death count is inflated. Too much weirdness with other death numbers like overdoses.
I’d rather get the Covid and ride it out.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:02 pm
by FSchmertz
Charliesheen wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:43 am
It’s certain the death count is inflated. Too much weirdness with other death numbers like overdoses.
I’d rather get the Covid and ride it out.
Ok, maybe it could be 200,000 so far. Let's humor you.
Gambling with your life or someone else's seems a poor bet, when you don't have to with a vaccine. And believing anything that lying thieving Chumpy, his enablers and his much faker nooz sources say is even a worse one.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:53 pm
by Cassandros
You don't think there is a gamble/bet when dealing with a vaccine?
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:03 pm
by Animal
Cassandros wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:53 pm
You don't think there is a gamble/bet when dealing with a vaccine?
there is a gamble with everything. there's a gamble that you would be killed in a car crash going to get lunch. Your brain does the math subconsciously every time you venture out of your home and determines if the risk is worth the reward. I'm not sure how the odds of being injured in a car wreck measure up against the odds of having some bad damage from a vaccine. My subconscious tells me they are similar odds.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:32 pm
by AnalHamster
Animal wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:03 pm
Cassandros wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:53 pm
You don't think there is a gamble/bet when dealing with a vaccine?
there is a gamble with everything. there's a gamble that you would be killed in a car crash going to get lunch. Your brain does the math subconsciously every time you venture out of your home and determines if the risk is worth the reward. I'm not sure how the odds of being injured in a car wreck measure up against the odds of having some bad damage from a vaccine. My subconscious tells me they are similar odds.
Your odds of dying in a car crash are 1 in 103, your odds of dying from a vaccine are under 1 in 1 million. Dummy.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:40 pm
by Cassandros
AnalHamster wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:32 pm
Animal wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:03 pm
Cassandros wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:53 pm
You don't think there is a gamble/bet when dealing with a vaccine?
there is a gamble with everything. there's a gamble that you would be killed in a car crash going to get lunch. Your brain does the math subconsciously every time you venture out of your home and determines if the risk is worth the reward. I'm not sure how the odds of being injured in a car wreck measure up against the odds of having some bad damage from a vaccine. My subconscious tells me they are similar odds.
Your odds of dying in a car crash are 1 in 103, your odds of dying from a vaccine are under 1 in 1 million. Dummy.
Please show your work to the class on how you pulled those numbers from your ass.
And why just count death? There are a host of no-death injuries cars and vaccines can cause.
Interestingly, one manufacture has a LOT more protections than the other... but I digress.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:40 pm
by Animal
AnalHamster wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:32 pm
Animal wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:03 pm
Cassandros wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:53 pm
You don't think there is a gamble/bet when dealing with a vaccine?
there is a gamble with everything. there's a gamble that you would be killed in a car crash going to get lunch. Your brain does the math subconsciously every time you venture out of your home and determines if the risk is worth the reward. I'm not sure how the odds of being injured in a car wreck measure up against the odds of having some bad damage from a vaccine. My subconscious tells me they are similar odds.
Your odds of dying in a car crash are 1 in 103, your odds of dying from a vaccine are under 1 in 1 million. Dummy.
lulz. that's hilarious.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:42 pm
by Stapes
Anyone who thinks getting a vaccine and getting into a car wreck are equal in potential death/injury is a fucking retard.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:44 pm
by Biker
Remember when liberals derided Big Pharma? Now they're pushing the fuck out of their products. lulz
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:51 pm
by Stapes
Biker wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:44 pm
Remember when liberals derided Big Pharma? Now they're pushing the fuck out of their products. lulz
anti-vaxers are right wing nutjobs....you know....your people
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:53 pm
by Biker
Stapes wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:51 pm
Biker wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:44 pm
Remember when liberals derided Big Pharma? Now they're pushing the fuck out of their products. lulz
anti-vaxers are right wing nutjobs....you know....your people
I'm not an anti-vaxxer, dipshit. I am simply pointing out how compliant liberals have gotten over the years. Remember when they used to question the government narrative? Pepperidge Farm remembers
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:59 pm
by Animal
AH doesn't know how statistics work.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:05 pm
by Cassandros
Stapes wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:42 pm
Anyone who thinks getting a vaccine and getting into a car wreck are equal in potential death/injury is a fucking retard.
Many years ago an internal memo of a car manufacturing plant leaked, it revealed that when a critical component in a vehicle is faulty the only way a recall is set is if it cost less than the potential lawsuits that malfunction will prompt.
Drug makers have similar processes and protections. Its happened time and time again where some pharma-tech co is fined hundreds of millions after they profited tens of billions from a drug that killed people. A drug they knew before hand was more dangerous than good.
The core difference: Car manufacturers have MUCH less protections than big pharma.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:08 pm
by Antknot
Cassandros wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:05 pm
Stapes wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 7:42 pm
Anyone who thinks getting a vaccine and getting into a car wreck are equal in potential death/injury is a fucking retard.
Many years ago an internal memo of a car manufacturing plant leaked, it revealed that when a critical component in a vehicle is faulty the only way a recall is set is if it cost less than the potential lawsuits that malfunction will prompt.
Drug makers have similar processes and protections. Its happened time and time again where some pharma-tech co is fined hundreds of millions after they profited tens of billions from a drug that killed people. A drug they knew before hand was more dangerous than good.
The core difference: Car manufacturers have MUCH less protections than big pharma.
Especially in the case of Covid-19 . Zero consequences.
Re: Wuhan Coronavirus
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 8:11 pm
by CaptQuint
Are motherfuckers really in here quoting Fight Club? Coss I think motherfuckers be quoting Fight Club.