Post birth abortions: An idea whose time has come?

[CaptQuint]

How long do you believe a brain-dead baby should be kept alive?

[CaptQuint]

How long do you believe a brain-dead baby should be kept alive?

How long should a healthy baby be kept alive if mom decides she doesnt want it?

He's talking about nonviable fetuses

[stymiegreen]

How long do you believe a brain-dead baby should be kept alive?

How long should a healthy baby be kept alive if mom decides she doesnt want it?

That's not what they are talking about here but feel free to contribute to the hysterics.

Under current Virginia law, abortions during the third trimester require a determination by a doctor and two consulting physicians that continuing the pregnancy would likely result in the woman's death or "substantially and irremediably" impair her mental or physical health.

The bill, proposed in the Virginia House of Delegates by Democrat Kathy Tran, would require only one doctor to make the determination that the pregnancy threatens the woman's life or health. The proposed legislation would also eliminate the requirement that abortions during the second trimester be performed in a state-licensed hospital.

Its not just a healthy baby is about to be born and the mother decides at the last minute she doesn't want it. Its a decision that requires a Physician to determine "substantial and irremediable" damage to a woman's health.

This is usually where the hysterics make a claim that the term "mental health" is just a meaningless code word that allows abortion on demand for any reason a woman decides. This tactic has been used ad-nauseum by pro-lifers and its exactly what the guy questioning her was trying to do here by harping on just speaking about the woman's "mental health" and just completely ignoring the physical part of it.

[CaptQuint]

The bill

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604 ... ful+HB2491

(PDF warning)

This is point where Biker apologizes for being incorrect and politely bows out of the thread, right?

[stymiegreen]

The bill

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604 ... ful+HB2491

(PDF warning)

This is point where Biker apologizes for being incorrect and politely bows out of the thread, right?

This is the key part:

[Charliesheen]

It's right there. My kid is/was an angel, but we all know they can drive you crazy.

[CaptQuint]

Charlie with the nonsense reply

[PimpDaddy]

Dems may as well keep it going, "anyone that may potentially cause you mental stress or threaten your safe space, you are now allowed to murder them in cold blood, as long as a quack doctor agrees with you."

Good job, guys!

[CaptQuint]

White Christian Republicans should just sit on your lap anytime you speak with a medical professional to make sure nothing they religiously disagree with is discussed.

[Who]

I would never have believed biker could top his thread from yesterday, but he never fails to surprise (AST)

[Charliesheen]

There are devotees to the abortion business like any other. Mental health of the mother is the catch basin for late-term abortion on demand. Strip that from the law and the d&c saline parties will have to be postponed until it's put back in.

[stymiegreen]

This is usually where the hysterics make a claim that the term "mental health" is just a meaningless code word that allows abortion on demand for any reason a woman decides. This tactic has been used ad-nauseum by pro-lifers and its exactly what the guy questioning her was trying to do here by harping on just speaking about the woman's "mental health" and just completely ignoring the physical part of it.

There are devotees to the abortion business like any other. Mental health of the mother is the catch basin for late-term abortion on demand. Strip that from the law and the d&c saline parties will have to be postponed until it's put back in.

Right on cue. Thanks for never disappointing, chuck. Lulz.

[PimpDaddy]

result in the woman's death or "substantially and irremediably" impair her mental or physical health.

What does that mean exactly? Depression?

It means that (very common) postpartum depression is a good enough reason to kill a healthy baby.

[Stapes]

All babies are precious. Except the ugly ones. and the ones born with a full head of hair....that's just witch craft. and albinos.

[AnalHamster]

Fairly similar wording to what's been on the books in the UK since 1967. Unsurprisingly zero abortions past 24 weeks because the woman is feeling a bit triggered have ever occurred as a result.

[CaptQuint]

Fairly similar wording to what's been on the books in the UK since 1967. Unsurprisingly zero abortions past 24 weeks because the woman is feeling a bit triggered have ever occurred as a result.

You mean mass infanticide hasn't been occurring on the regular because women don't want to carry a baby till near term THEN decide they don't want a healthy baby and have some bloke from the NHS stick a pitchfork in it and put it in the rubbish?

[stymiegreen]

This is usually where the hysterics make a claim that the term "mental health" is just a meaningless code word that allows abortion on demand for any reason a woman decides. This tactic has been used ad-nauseum by pro-lifers and its exactly what the guy questioning her was trying to do here by harping on just speaking about the woman's "mental health" and just completely ignoring the physical part of it.

There are devotees to the abortion business like any other. Mental health of the mother is the catch basin for late-term abortion on demand. Strip that from the law and the d&c saline parties will have to be postponed until it's put back in.

Right on cue. Thanks for never disappointing, chuck. Lulz.

No, this is the point where youre ok with wishy washy language.

Are you ok with abortion in the instance of it being a severe threat to the mother's physical health? That way we can determine how disingenuous your argument is here. Can a doctor and the woman decide that she'd rather not die or be permanently disabled for the rest of her life for complications that occur in her pregnancy?

Or what do we do...have armed guards ensuring she carry the pregnacy through whether she wants it or not? Let's get all the idiotic scenarios out on the table since you've already started your pretend hysterics.

[stymiegreen]

Are you ok with abortion in the instance of it being a severe threat to the mother's physical health? 100%

Can a doctor and the woman decide that she'd rather not die or be permanently disabled for the rest of her life for complications that occur in her pregnancy? 100%

Your turn

What mental condition would warrant an abortion at 40 weeks or just after birth?

I'm not a psychiatrist or a doctor...but I'd propose that people against that aspect of the bill should maybe enter into a discussion of what mental conditions they would agree are warranted? Instead of just making any damage to a woman's mental health a punchline? Or pretending that adding mental health into the bill was part of librul bloodlust to dine on the blood of aborted fetuses?

But we both know that discussion will never happen because the ardent pro-lifers don't care about physical or mental threats to a woman's health during pregnancy. That part of it is just a red herring. Even you posting the thread acted like the language of the bill was just some ploy to enable the abortion for any reason the woman might decide on that day like she had a burnt piece of toast for breakfast and it really got her down....derp...abortion.

[AnalHamster]

Fairly similar wording to what's been on the books in the UK since 1967. Unsurprisingly zero abortions past 24 weeks because the woman is feeling a bit triggered have ever occurred as a result.

Abortion procedures are made public in the UK? Damn, thats worse than the Scarlett Letter

The law is public, the statistics are public, the medical journals are anonymized, and the press is free. It doesn't happen, it wouldn't be covered up if it did.

[CaptQuint]

It seems late-term abortion is already legal if three doctors agree it is medically necessary, and this bill would change it so that only the patient's doctor needs to make that call


https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/tit ... on18.2-74/

§ 18.2-74. (b) The physician and two consulting physicians certify and so enter in the hospital record of the woman, that in their medical opinion, based upon their best clinical judgment, the continuation of the pregnancy is likely to result in the death of the woman or substantially and irremediably impair the mental or physical health of the woman.

That's how the law is right now

[AnalHamster]

Are you ok with abortion in the instance of it being a severe threat to the mother's physical health? 100%

Can a doctor and the woman decide that she'd rather not die or be permanently disabled for the rest of her life for complications that occur in her pregnancy? 100%

Your turn

What mental condition would warrant an abortion at 40 weeks or just after birth?

I'm not a psychiatrist or a doctor...but I'd propose that people against that aspect of the bill should maybe enter into a discussion of what mental conditions they would agree are warranted? Instead of just making any damage to a woman's mental health a punchline? Or pretending that adding mental health into the bill was part of librul bloodlust to dine on the blood of aborted fetuses?

But we both know that discussion will never happen because the ardent pro-lifers don't care about physical or mental threats to a woman's health during pregnancy. That part of it is just a red herring. Even you posting the thread acted like the language of the bill was just some ploy to enable the abortion for any reason the woman might decide on that day like she had a burnt piece of toast for breakfast and it really got her down....derp...abortion.

So non-answers and strawmen. Got it

Lets go about it this way: Are we aware of any mental condition that is solely caused by the birthing process?

Postpartum depression. Leading cause of murder in US citizens under 1 year old.

Let's go about it this way: are we aware of any abortion anywhere ever performed at 40 weeks on a viable foetus? Or any abortion anywhere ever 'just after birth'?

[AnalHamster]

Fairly similar wording to what's been on the books in the UK since 1967. Unsurprisingly zero abortions past 24 weeks because the woman is feeling a bit triggered have ever occurred as a result.

Abortion procedures are made public in the UK? Damn, thats worse than the Scarlett Letter

The law is public, the statistics are public, the medical journals are anonymized, and the press is free. It doesn't happen, it wouldn't be covered up if it did.

Interesting. I have to look that up because zero abortions after 24 weeks is remarkable

That is not what I said dimwit.

[stymiegreen]

Are you ok with abortion in the instance of it being a severe threat to the mother's physical health? 100%

Can a doctor and the woman decide that she'd rather not die or be permanently disabled for the rest of her life for complications that occur in her pregnancy? 100%

Your turn

What mental condition would warrant an abortion at 40 weeks or just after birth?

I'm not a psychiatrist or a doctor...but I'd propose that people against that aspect of the bill should maybe enter into a discussion of what mental conditions they would agree are warranted? Instead of just making any damage to a woman's mental health a punchline? Or pretending that adding mental health into the bill was part of librul bloodlust to dine on the blood of aborted fetuses?

But we both know that discussion will never happen because the ardent pro-lifers don't care about physical or mental threats to a woman's health during pregnancy. That part of it is just a red herring. Even you posting the thread acted like the language of the bill was just some ploy to enable the abortion for any reason the woman might decide on that day like she had a burnt piece of toast for breakfast and it really got her down....derp...abortion.

So non-answers and strawmen. Got it

Lets go about it this way: Are we aware of any mental condition that is solely caused by the birthing process?

We're talking about women who may have gotten pregnant as a victim or rape or incest...women who may have had a serious underlying mental health disorder that was exacerbated by the pregnancy....perhaps a woman that has become suicidal. And we're talking about a very small percentage to begin with where this would apply. Those small instances should still be considered though. And instead we get these absurd claims that the exception is only put in there to justify abortion under any circumstances. Sure you can't point to many or even any where the mental health exception was used on a whim by a completely mentally sound woman to arbitrarily abort a completely healthy kid after a complication free birth...but the pro-lifers hang their entire argument and sense of feigned outrage on these instances being widespread and frequently sought out.

Its complete bullshit.

[AnalHamster]

Hammy caught in a bit of a lie here

Fairly similar wording to what's been on the books in the UK since 1967. Unsurprisingly zero abortions past 24 weeks because the woman is feeling a bit triggered have ever occurred as a result.

The UK does not allow mental illness to be a reasonable consideration for abortions past 24 weeks

Lets say you, TediousFuhrer

(b)that the termination is necessary to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; or

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1967/87/section/1

Yes it does. Biker caught in a bit of a mistake here. That means he'll run away and never acknowledge it, as he is a child.

[stymiegreen]

Wrong, fuckstick. Thats not what we're talking about at all. In fact, youre the first to have brought it up

Yeah just isolate one line of my response and then get tough about it. Grow the fuck up, dicknose. You're flailing as usual.