The electric vehicle scam

[Reservoir Dog]

Careful... this could awaken the slumbering FSF!

[CaptQuint]

[Who]

Imagine the damage cell phones and laptops are doing to the environment

[Antknot]

Imagine the damage cell phones and laptops are doing to the environment

And that just the ones being used!

[VinceBordenIII]

I don’t really follow the issue, but this post made me wonder, why isn’t solar power taking over if it’s so good? Shouldn’t the costs go down as the tech improves? Same with windmills. It’s been decades, can’t they sustain themselves yet?

[Antknot]

I don’t really follow the issue, but this post made me wonder, why isn’t solar power taking over if it’s so good? Shouldn’t the costs go down as the tech improves? Same with windmills. It’s been decades, can’t they sustain themselves yet?

For solar ( photovoltaic ) to have an impact somebody is going to have to pull a magic hat out of their ass and then pull a better storage system for the electric power out of the hat. People are selling excess electricity back to the grid but that ain't storage and the grid had to have capabilities to replace the PV when the sun don't shine. Another problem is the area needed for the collectors.

Hot water systems can store the energy effectively but conversion to electricity is not an easy task.

Don't get me wrong future building should have a requirement for efficiency and the use of solar both photovoltaic and hot water systems have a place. Photovoltaic to drive the pumps in a hot water system makes a lot of sense. No need to store electricity since the pumps aren't needed of the sun isn't shining. But you're still left with where to get electricity when the sun isn't shining.


Wind is killing birds of prey because they are looking down for prey and not forward for obstacles. And I wonder if massive amounts of wind collection won't affect the wind patterns.

[kwebber]

In my province 90% of the electricity we use is from hydroelectric dams. So yeah, speak for yourself. It's not a scam in my province.

[CaptQuint]

[beagleboy]

Can't the batteries be recycled?

It's idiotic fear mongering that clean nuclear energy isn't more prevalent.
It's very likely two large Northeastern coal plants have killed more people with their pollution than the accumulated death toll of nuclear energy across the globe. It's easy to ignore the slow deaths of thousands every year over a splashy headline every other decade.

[AnalHamster]

It's not economical to recover the lithium. It can be done, but it would require regulation to mandate it has to be done and tacking a bit on somewhere in the chain to cover the cost. Eventually they'll be designed for easier recycling and the recycling processes will improve to bring the cost down, but the tech is lagging behind because there's no particular reason to do it yet.

When a battery is too worn for a car though it still works about 70%. That's still a pretty good battery. The simplest way to recycle them is just to use them for other stuff.

[spudoc]

Can't the batteries be recycled?

It's idiotic fear mongering that clean nuclear energy isn't more prevalent.
It's very likely two large Northeastern coal plants have killed more people with their pollution than the accumulated death toll of nuclear energy across the globe. It's easy to ignore the slow deaths of thousands every year over a splashy headline every other decade.

Nuclear energy has been declared clean? So they've figured out how to safely contain the radioactive waste? And what to do with the reactors when they are deactivated? I'll give you a hint, they haven't figured shit out yet.

[Antknot]

Can't the batteries be recycled?

It's idiotic fear mongering that clean nuclear energy isn't more prevalent.
It's very likely two large Northeastern coal plants have killed more people with their pollution than the accumulated death toll of nuclear energy across the globe. It's easy to ignore the slow deaths of thousands every year over a splashy headline every other decade.

Nuclear energy has been declared clean? So they've figured out how to safely contain the radioactive waste? And what to do with the reactors when they are deactivated? I'll give you a hint, they haven't figured shit out yet.

Yes nuke power is "clean" in a global warming sort of way. No greenhouse emissions. The heat from the radioactive decay would happen any way so isn't adding to the total energy in the calculation.

[AnalHamster]

Bury the waste in a mountain people can't visit for 10,000 years and make sure the reactor sites are out of the way. It's not that we can really clean up after nuclear sites, it's that the contamination is locally limited enough that it doesn't matter. Even major meltdowns like Chernobyl proved relatively harmless in the end. It's simply a fact that coal power is far deadlier than nuclear power, and that's also true of all of the non renewables. Renewables are safer and cleaner, but can't meet our energy needs in the forseeable future. Nuclear is the rational choice, at least outside of earthquake and flood zones.

[CaptQuint]

Canada's nuclear reactors (CANDU) are designed to use decommissioned nuclear weapons as fuel and can be refueled while running at full power. They're considered among the safest and the most cost effective reactors in the world.

[DandyDon]

It's not economical to recover the lithium. It can be done, but it would require regulation to mandate it has to be done and tacking a bit on somewhere in the chain to cover the cost. Eventually they'll be designed for easier recycling and the recycling processes will improve to bring the cost down, but the tech is lagging behind because there's no particular reason to do it yet.

When a battery is too worn for a car though it still works about 70%. That's still a pretty good battery. The simplest way to recycle them is just to use them for other stuff.

When I see a EV battery needing replacement, it is usually due to 1-3 of the individual batteries failing, and the specs are very tight for the controller to flag a failure. A difference of .5 V between the 'cells' is enough to do it. The battery modules are made of multiple individual Li-ion batteries. Now we are replacing the bad individual battery(s) and instead of a $3k repair, its just a few hundred $$$.

The damn cars are very dependable. We have several Prius customers approaching 500k miles on their 2nd battery pack. Its pretty impressive to look at the data and see the average MPG over the life of the car @ 45+.

[spudoc]

It's not economical to recover the lithium. It can be done, but it would require regulation to mandate it has to be done and tacking a bit on somewhere in the chain to cover the cost. Eventually they'll be designed for easier recycling and the recycling processes will improve to bring the cost down, but the tech is lagging behind because there's no particular reason to do it yet.

When a battery is too worn for a car though it still works about 70%. That's still a pretty good battery. The simplest way to recycle them is just to use them for other stuff.

When I see a EV battery needing replacement, it is usually due to 1-3 of the individual batteries failing, and the specs are very tight for the controller to flag a failure. A difference of .5 V between the 'cells' is enough to do it. The battery modules are made of multiple individual Li-ion batteries. Now we are replacing the bad individual battery(s) and instead of a $3k repair, its just a few hundred $$$.

Do you do the change out? And do you do the balancing? I have a 12 year old prius that the battery has probably seen it's best days and I'd like to know the process.

[CaptQuint]

It's not economical to recover the lithium. It can be done, but it would require regulation to mandate it has to be done and tacking a bit on somewhere in the chain to cover the cost. Eventually they'll be designed for easier recycling and the recycling processes will improve to bring the cost down, but the tech is lagging behind because there's no particular reason to do it yet.

When a battery is too worn for a car though it still works about 70%. That's still a pretty good battery. The simplest way to recycle them is just to use them for other stuff.

When I see a EV battery needing replacement, it is usually due to 1-3 of the individual batteries failing, and the specs are very tight for the controller to flag a failure. A difference of .5 V between the 'cells' is enough to do it. The battery modules are made of multiple individual Li-ion batteries. Now we are replacing the bad individual battery(s) and instead of a $3k repair, its just a few hundred $$$.

Do you do the change out? And do you do the balancing? I have a 12 year old prius that the battery has probably seen it's best days and I'd like to know the process.

Plenty of youtubers doing it

[spudoc]

It's not economical to recover the lithium. It can be done, but it would require regulation to mandate it has to be done and tacking a bit on somewhere in the chain to cover the cost. Eventually they'll be designed for easier recycling and the recycling processes will improve to bring the cost down, but the tech is lagging behind because there's no particular reason to do it yet.

When a battery is too worn for a car though it still works about 70%. That's still a pretty good battery. The simplest way to recycle them is just to use them for other stuff.

When I see a EV battery needing replacement, it is usually due to 1-3 of the individual batteries failing, and the specs are very tight for the controller to flag a failure. A difference of .5 V between the 'cells' is enough to do it. The battery modules are made of multiple individual Li-ion batteries. Now we are replacing the bad individual battery(s) and instead of a $3k repair, its just a few hundred $$$.

Do you do the change out? And do you do the balancing? I have a 12 year old prius that the battery has probably seen it's best days and I'd like to know the process.

Plenty of youtubers doing it

They really don't show the balancing/calibration process. It seems like it is an important step from what I've read.

[AnalHamster]

It's not economical to recover the lithium. It can be done, but it would require regulation to mandate it has to be done and tacking a bit on somewhere in the chain to cover the cost. Eventually they'll be designed for easier recycling and the recycling processes will improve to bring the cost down, but the tech is lagging behind because there's no particular reason to do it yet.

When a battery is too worn for a car though it still works about 70%. That's still a pretty good battery. The simplest way to recycle them is just to use them for other stuff.

When I see a EV battery needing replacement, it is usually due to 1-3 of the individual batteries failing, and the specs are very tight for the controller to flag a failure. A difference of .5 V between the 'cells' is enough to do it. The battery modules are made of multiple individual Li-ion batteries. Now we are replacing the bad individual battery(s) and instead of a $3k repair, its just a few hundred $$$.

The damn cars are very dependable. We have several Prius customers approaching 500k miles on their 2nd battery pack. Its pretty impressive to look at the data and see the average MPG over the life of the car @ 45+.

500k is way better than any of the petrol cars I've ever had, interesting to hear the real world mpg though because toyota claim it's 80-90. MPG stats that the manufacturers claim, now that's a scam.

[DandyDon]

It's not economical to recover the lithium. It can be done, but it would require regulation to mandate it has to be done and tacking a bit on somewhere in the chain to cover the cost. Eventually they'll be designed for easier recycling and the recycling processes will improve to bring the cost down, but the tech is lagging behind because there's no particular reason to do it yet.

When a battery is too worn for a car though it still works about 70%. That's still a pretty good battery. The simplest way to recycle them is just to use them for other stuff.

When I see a EV battery needing replacement, it is usually due to 1-3 of the individual batteries failing, and the specs are very tight for the controller to flag a failure. A difference of .5 V between the 'cells' is enough to do it. The battery modules are made of multiple individual Li-ion batteries. Now we are replacing the bad individual battery(s) and instead of a $3k repair, its just a few hundred $$$.

The damn cars are very dependable. We have several Prius customers approaching 500k miles on their 2nd battery pack. Its pretty impressive to look at the data and see the average MPG over the life of the car @ 45+.

500k is way better than any of the petrol cars I've ever had, interesting to hear the real world mpg though because toyota claim it's 80-90. MPG stats that the manufacturers claim, now that's a scam.

I wouldnt be surprised to see 80-90 highway mpg under the right driving conditions. These are earlier generation Prius, hence the 500k miles. I'm sure the newer ones get even better mileage just because the technology has improved a lot. They only have to report the best attainable MPG which is much different on flat Texas interstate vs Tennessee mountain interstate. The lifetime mpg stats include start & stop city driving, idling, and any time the engine is running.

[DandyDon]

It's not economical to recover the lithium. It can be done, but it would require regulation to mandate it has to be done and tacking a bit on somewhere in the chain to cover the cost. Eventually they'll be designed for easier recycling and the recycling processes will improve to bring the cost down, but the tech is lagging behind because there's no particular reason to do it yet.

When a battery is too worn for a car though it still works about 70%. That's still a pretty good battery. The simplest way to recycle them is just to use them for other stuff.

When I see a EV battery needing replacement, it is usually due to 1-3 of the individual batteries failing, and the specs are very tight for the controller to flag a failure. A difference of .5 V between the 'cells' is enough to do it. The battery modules are made of multiple individual Li-ion batteries. Now we are replacing the bad individual battery(s) and instead of a $3k repair, its just a few hundred $$$.

Do you do the change out? And do you do the balancing? I have a 12 year old prius that the battery has probably seen it's best days and I'd like to know the process.

Yes we do, but it requires a factory Toyota scan tool. (Techstream)

[DandyDon]

You have to watch this freaking thing fire!

[VinceBordenIII]

I’m glad to see greenies have come round to nuclear energy. A national policy of new reactors would help reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.

[CaptQuint]

You know what uranium is, right? It’s this thing called nuclear weapons. And other things. Like lots of things are done with uranium. Including some bad things.