UJRefugees.net

I know there are a ton of conspiracy theories floating around, but what do you think the real reasons are? Do you think that its just a game of chicken that Putin is playing to try to get the most leverage for the lifting of sanctions in place against Russia before he pulls his troops back?

From what I have read, a solid majority (over 80%) of the Ukranian people don't like Putin and do not want to be part of Russia. They all want to ally with the west and joint NATO. Crimea was a very small amount of land and people. Ukraine is a huge country to try to control if they don't want it. I mean, Ukraine is as big as Spain or France or Germany, etc.

Historically, Ukraine has been the absolute core of Russia going back to it's founding. Eastern Northmen (Swedish Vikings if you will) founded Kiev over a thousand years ago on their way to the Black Sea trade with Constantinople. The Crimean ports on the Black Sea have always been Russia's only year round shipping/naval area. That is why they seized it 10+ years ago. They consider the whole area as a buffer against enemies to the West. Germany's invasion was only 80 years ago.

There is no strategic incentive for them to invade, since they already control Europe's energy supply. They're only incentive would be to recreate, at least partially, the Russian empire

Mediterranean access?

Charliesheen wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:39 pm Mediterranean access?

It's what I already said. It's why they seized the the Crimea, especially Sevastopol back during the Obama Admin.

There is no love lost between the Ukrainian people and Russia.
My grandfather fled Ukraine in the late 40's to get away from the oppressive communist Russians. The stories he would tell left no room for doubt that the Russians were absolutely brutal to the Ukrainian people. Throw the Polish in there too. There was a point in history, prior to Russian control, were the Ukrainian people were under oppressive Polish control.

That said...
The geography of Ukraine is such that throughout history, unfortunately, it is simply one of those areas that has gotten conquered and/or traveled through by more powerful entities for thousands of years. The Great Steppes (basically plains) make travel easy. Ukraine is pretty much a giant area of flat land. The Ukrainian people have had their land occupied, controlled or over run for a huge part of their entire existence and its one of the reasons they are such a poor nation.

So why does Putin want Russian control again?
-It is a huge area of strategic land that is easily controlled
-Even though the Ukrainians basically hate the Russians they share a lot culturally
-Direct and easy access to The Black Sea
-It gets him closer to the more successful European countries plus puts him right at Polands border. Dont think he wouldnt like Russian control of Poland again.
-He likes to flex Russian muscle
-He is testing the West in general and Biden in particular
-He may be doing this to indirectly test the response for China. I am certain China is very curious how this will play out as they want to move on Taiwan. Behind the scenes perhaps China has promised something in return in exchange for showing them how the West is likely to react to aggression.

I understand that if you were playing Monopoly and you were Russia, then owning Ukraine would be of good benefit in the game. But the stakes for that purchase make it seem almost ridiculous.

And, if you are NATO, and you have a nation that wants peace (Ukraine) and can't defend itself, and wants to join NATO and doesn't want to be controlled by Russia, then this doesn't even seem like a decision. Putin might be bold but he's not stupid.

Like Cheezy said, Ukraine and Russia have a lot (culture, religion) in common but the Russians, especially the Soviets treated them brutally for almost 70 years. Plus they took the brunt of Germany's invasion during the early 40's. One thing not mentioned, Ukraine has always been the food breadbasket of Russia.

CentralTexasCrude wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:07 pm Like Cheezy said, Ukraine and Russia have a lot (culture, religion) in common but the Russians, especially the Soviets treated them brutally for almost 70 years. Plus they took the brunt of Germany's invasion during the early 40's. One thing not mentioned, Ukraine has always been the food breadbasket of Russia.

Worlds 5th largest producer of grain I heard.

theclap wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:25 am

CentralTexasCrude wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:07 pm Like Cheezy said, Ukraine and Russia have a lot (culture, religion) in common but the Russians, especially the Soviets treated them brutally for almost 70 years. Plus they took the brunt of Germany's invasion during the early 40's. One thing not mentioned, Ukraine has always been the food breadbasket of Russia.

Worlds 5th largest producer of grain I heard.

I mean they are getting it in trade now that Ukraine is independent but it used to be there's outright.

Animal wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:27 pm I understand that if you were playing Monopoly and you were Russia, then owning Ukraine would be of good benefit in the game. But the stakes for that purchase make it seem almost ridiculous.

And, if you are NATO, and you have a nation that wants peace (Ukraine) and can't defend itself, and wants to join NATO and doesn't want to be controlled by Russia, then this doesn't even seem like a decision. Putin might be bold but he's not stupid.

Putin has proven he isnt scared to troll NATO. The largest economy in Europe is entirely dependent on Russian energy. The more I think about this the more I think this is a "2 man" operation. Russia is doing the legwork of the posturing and perceived aggression while China looks on and takes notes on how the West reacts. So, what is the benefit for Putin?
1.) He can always stand down if the consequences are too harsh and then collect whatever payment China has offered for the lesson.
2.) If the West proves to be all talk then he takes Ukraine and any sanctions imposed by the West would be mitigated or offset by the Russia/China alliance.

CHEEZY17 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:15 am

Animal wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:27 pm I understand that if you were playing Monopoly and you were Russia, then owning Ukraine would be of good benefit in the game. But the stakes for that purchase make it seem almost ridiculous.

And, if you are NATO, and you have a nation that wants peace (Ukraine) and can't defend itself, and wants to join NATO and doesn't want to be controlled by Russia, then this doesn't even seem like a decision. Putin might be bold but he's not stupid.

Putin has proven he isnt scared to troll NATO. The largest economy in Europe is entirely dependent on Russian energy. The more I think about this the more I think this is a "2 man" operation. Russia is doing the legwork of the posturing and perceived aggression while China looks on and takes notes on how the West reacts. So, what is the benefit for Putin?
1.) He can always stand down if the consequences are too harsh and then collect whatever payment China has offered for the lesson.
2.) If the West proves to be all talk then he takes Ukraine and any sanctions imposed by the West would be mitigated or offset by the Russia/China alliance.

the winter olympics start in about a week in China. Do you really think they want WWIII to be taking the headlines during that? I can understand the thinking to believe China is kind of behind this, but that doesnt make any sense for it to be coming to a head right now. If china was pulling any strings they would have waited a few more weeks to get all this shit started.

Animal wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:23 am

CHEEZY17 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:15 am

Animal wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:27 pm I understand that if you were playing Monopoly and you were Russia, then owning Ukraine would be of good benefit in the game. But the stakes for that purchase make it seem almost ridiculous.

And, if you are NATO, and you have a nation that wants peace (Ukraine) and can't defend itself, and wants to join NATO and doesn't want to be controlled by Russia, then this doesn't even seem like a decision. Putin might be bold but he's not stupid.

Putin has proven he isnt scared to troll NATO. The largest economy in Europe is entirely dependent on Russian energy. The more I think about this the more I think this is a "2 man" operation. Russia is doing the legwork of the posturing and perceived aggression while China looks on and takes notes on how the West reacts. So, what is the benefit for Putin?
1.) He can always stand down if the consequences are too harsh and then collect whatever payment China has offered for the lesson.
2.) If the West proves to be all talk then he takes Ukraine and any sanctions imposed by the West would be mitigated or offset by the Russia/China alliance.

the winter olympics start in about a week in China. Do you really think they want WWIII to be taking the headlines during that? I can understand the thinking to believe China is kind of behind this, but that doesnt make any sense for it to be coming to a head right now. If china was pulling any strings they would have waited a few more weeks to get all this shit started.

Everything I've seen or read puts nothing really happening until mid to late February...if at all.

Animal wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:23 am

CHEEZY17 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:15 am

Animal wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:27 pm I understand that if you were playing Monopoly and you were Russia, then owning Ukraine would be of good benefit in the game. But the stakes for that purchase make it seem almost ridiculous.

And, if you are NATO, and you have a nation that wants peace (Ukraine) and can't defend itself, and wants to join NATO and doesn't want to be controlled by Russia, then this doesn't even seem like a decision. Putin might be bold but he's not stupid.

Putin has proven he isnt scared to troll NATO. The largest economy in Europe is entirely dependent on Russian energy. The more I think about this the more I think this is a "2 man" operation. Russia is doing the legwork of the posturing and perceived aggression while China looks on and takes notes on how the West reacts. So, what is the benefit for Putin?
1.) He can always stand down if the consequences are too harsh and then collect whatever payment China has offered for the lesson.
2.) If the West proves to be all talk then he takes Ukraine and any sanctions imposed by the West would be mitigated or offset by the Russia/China alliance.

the winter olympics start in about a week in China. Do you really think they want WWIII to be taking the headlines during that? I can understand the thinking to believe China is kind of behind this, but that doesnt make any sense for it to be coming to a head right now. If china was pulling any strings they would have waited a few more weeks to get all this shit started.

Or, if China really is "helping" with this they could simply say "Dont do anything until the Olympics are done."

CHEEZY17 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:03 pm

Animal wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:23 am

CHEEZY17 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:15 am

Animal wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:27 pm I understand that if you were playing Monopoly and you were Russia, then owning Ukraine would be of good benefit in the game. But the stakes for that purchase make it seem almost ridiculous.

And, if you are NATO, and you have a nation that wants peace (Ukraine) and can't defend itself, and wants to join NATO and doesn't want to be controlled by Russia, then this doesn't even seem like a decision. Putin might be bold but he's not stupid.

Putin has proven he isnt scared to troll NATO. The largest economy in Europe is entirely dependent on Russian energy. The more I think about this the more I think this is a "2 man" operation. Russia is doing the legwork of the posturing and perceived aggression while China looks on and takes notes on how the West reacts. So, what is the benefit for Putin?
1.) He can always stand down if the consequences are too harsh and then collect whatever payment China has offered for the lesson.
2.) If the West proves to be all talk then he takes Ukraine and any sanctions imposed by the West would be mitigated or offset by the Russia/China alliance.

the winter olympics start in about a week in China. Do you really think they want WWIII to be taking the headlines during that? I can understand the thinking to believe China is kind of behind this, but that doesnt make any sense for it to be coming to a head right now. If china was pulling any strings they would have waited a few more weeks to get all this shit started.

Or, if China really is "helping" with this they could simply say "Dont do anything until the Olympics are done."

And have sent the athletes from the US and NATO back with something wore than the ‘Rona

5,000 helmets? Well that should tip the scales in favor of Ukraine.

Where are they going to get masks and vaccines?

Russia always had a major problem with food production, their growing season is short and they only had about 20% land to grow anything so Stalin dominated east europe countries not for only natural resources but for the food production mainly. Food lines in Russia wasn't/isn't a publicity stunt. Ukraine has fertile land plus a warm water port .Russia has oil but it doesnt taste good on toast

fouts wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:11 pm Russia always had a major problem with food production, their growing season is short and they only had about 20% land to grow anything so Stalin dominated east europe countries not for only natural resources but for the food production mainly. Food lines in Russia wasn't/isn't a publicity stunt. Ukraine has fertile land plus a warm water port .Russia has oil but it doesnt taste good on toast

those are probably things you should take into consideration when you decide how you are going to treat people.

Putin is ex FSB/KGB he prefers to be feared than liked, and anybody not a part of his circle need to be controlled,sorta like how the Democratic s operate lately

I think it's another misinformation campaign that the Biden admin has fallen for. Similar to Bush and the wmd's. China is a bigger threat to Taiwan right now. They're flying jets into Taiwanese airspace routinely. Russia hasn't done anything as flagrant.

To show that they can, and that they know the alzheimers patient won't do a thing about it. They know he's weak, they know he's a pushover, and an invasion/takeover of Ukraine is just a chance for Russia to humiliate Brandon in front of the world. No different from when he shit his pants in front of the pope, or abandoned Americans to die behind enemy lines in Afghanistan.

so am i hearing this news report right? most of the ukranian soldiers are using "plywood" rifles? wtf? I have heard that same kind of news report 3 different times today.

i also heard that russia is moving mobile blood banks into the area. that's a pretty impressive move if this is all a troll job on their part.