What is the "Red Line"?

[CHEEZY17]

For some people to want to get involved?
Russia is clearly attacking civilian targets.
Russia clearly has a goal of controlling the many nuclear power plants there. Then what?
Russia clearly has a goal of expanding their authoritarian influence through military action.
Putin clearly is in a different thought process now of how Russia deals with the world

These are known and on full display.

What exactly must happen for the fence sitters to say: "Well, thats it. Fuck him. Its time to step up our game."

Europe clearly has a vested interest in this and their tepid response has baffled me. Why this outright aggression and hostility hasnt been forcefully addressed and condemned in clear, forceful and undeniable words and actions is disgraceful.
I understand its complicated. I understand perceived "acts of aggression" and "escalation". I get it, I really do and I understand the stakes and understand the caution.
This action was brought to the western world. We did not seek it out. Our (the free western worlds) actions would simply be the response to unprovoked aggression.

If the causes listed above are not worthy of a more unified, strong response beyond what we're seeing, what is? Whats your line?
(And BTW, I'm not saying we should send our military to directly engage the Russians)

[Biker]

For me there is no line. I want zero US troops involved.

This is the correct answer

[Who]

For me there is no line. I want zero US troops involved.

This is the correct answer

What the two communist sympathizers said

[necronomous]

For me there is no line. I want zero US troops involved.

This is the correct answer

What the two communist sympathizers said

I fucking hate communists. Leftism is bad now matter how you slice it.

Who's mad because he has to be against the side that the left are more closely aligned with.

[Deathproof]

For me there is no line. I want zero US troops involved.

This is the correct answer

What the two communist sympathizers said

I fucking hate communists. Leftism is bad now matter how you slice it.

Who's mad because he has to be against the side that the left are more closely aligned with.

You people do realize that Russia is not a communist country, right?

[necronomous]

For me there is no line. I want zero US troops involved.

This is the correct answer

What the two communist sympathizers said

I fucking hate communists. Leftism is bad now matter how you slice it.

Who's mad because he has to be against the side that the left are more closely aligned with.

You people do realize that Russia is not a communist country, right?

My statement was about communism as still being seen as bad, yet the left is very much close to them and they desire it, at least a lot do.

[JackCoughsALot]

"Communism would work if I was in charge" - What every liberal thinks but never says

[Animal]

Actually, I think that these sanctions and the growing calls to charge Putin with war crimes is going to be enough. Its not going to happen quickly, but I think it will work. I hear that we might be working on a side deal to supply war planes through another country. that could change things very quickly with regards to these sitting duck convoys.

[Biker]

I hear that we might be working on a side deal to supply war planes through another country. that could change things very quickly with regards to these sitting duck convoys.

Might as well declare war then, no? Thats how Putin will see it

[Animal]

I hear that we might be working on a side deal to supply war planes through another country. that could change things very quickly with regards to these sitting duck convoys.

Might as well declare war then, no? Thats how Putin will see it

everything that has been done so far has been seen as war by Putin. He said the sanctions alone are viewed as war by every country that issues them. He said that anything anyone does to help Ukraine is viewed as war.

[Animal]

I don't think you can look at any measure in terms of how Putin will view it. You have to look at them in terms of what is legal and defined by the various international laws and organizations. Russia got up votes from Syria, North Korea, Belarus, and some other country I had never heard of when the UN voted on whether Russia should get out of Ukraine. While not every country joins in the financial sanctions, every country that is not run by a strict dictator, believe Russia is in the wrong.

[CHEEZY17]

It's only a matter of time.

Pretty much. Give em the ol "atta boy!" and a smack on the ass.

[CHEEZY17]

For me there is no line. I want zero US troops involved.

This is the correct answer

What the two communist sympathizers said

I dont want US troops there either and the last line of my post says that. I think we could be doing a lot besides that though. Why are we still buying Russian oil and tying the hands of our own producers?
Why didnt we come out forcefully as soon as this happened instead of the wishy-washy approach the administration has taken.
Everyone knew what was going to happen- including the administration. They said as much. When the buildup started months ago it should have been made very clear, in forceful terms, what it would be viewed as. Instead we got mealy-mouthed threats and and overall sense of "meh".
It looks like we might be trying to do some more now but why did it have to get this far for some action?

[Deathproof]

For me there is no line. I want zero US troops involved.

This is the correct answer

What the two communist sympathizers said

Why didnt we come out forcefully as soon as this happened instead of the wishy-washy approach the administration has taken.
Everyone knew what was going to happen- including the administration. They said as much. When the buildup started months ago it should have been made very clear, in forceful terms, what it would be viewed as. Instead we got mealy-mouthed threats and and overall sense of "meh".
It looks like we might be trying to do some more now but why did it have to get this far for some action?

Because our "leadership", so to speak, is a dementia-ridden, addle-brained pussy, and the people actually making the decisions that he parrots are even worse.

[Animal]

I think this whole "Russian Oil" thing is a good example of how our new "social media driven" politics makes for bad decisions. I think the smart people realize that cutting off Russian oil hurts us and helps Putin. As backward as that sounds it is going to drive up global oil prices and hurt us to a great extent. Oil briefly hit $130 today. And, meanwhile, it is going to raise the price that Russia ultimately gets for the oil that we did not buy. I know its a bit more complicated than that simple explanation, but those are the results.

BUT, because the drum beat here is to Cancel Russia in every way, including oil, then that will ultimately be what Biden will do. Honestly, whether he does it or not, the markets are already responding to it as if he did.

[CHEEZY17]

Not if we weren't buying that much from them in the first place. Our buying from them is a direct result of our current domestic production policies. We have proven in the past we don't need their product yet some folks here would rather hamstring our domestic production and support a dictator instead.
Smart people understand that increasing our domestic production and reducing our reliance on imported product is the best way to stabilize and reduce cost for Americans.

[Animal]

Not if we weren't buying that much from them in the first place. Our buying from them is a direct result of our current domestic production policies. We have proven in the past we don't need their product yet some folks here would rather hamstring our domestic production and support a dictator instead.
Smart people understand that increasing our domestic production and reducing our reliance on imported product is the best way to stabilize and reduce cost for Americans.

I agree with that if you could turn the clock back. But you can't so we are stuck making decisions with the cards we are dealt. Our producers here back into their prices like any producer on the globe, so if oil is selling for $130 a barrel, then that's what it will cost here.

I think we buy around 8% of our oil from Russia. That was a mistake to get involved in, but cutting the cord right now is going to result in what I said above. Higher prices for us and more profits for Putin.

[Deathproof]

Not if we weren't buying that much from them in the first place. Our buying from them is a direct result of our current domestic production policies. We have proven in the past we don't need their product yet some folks here would rather hamstring our domestic production and support a dictator instead.
Smart people understand that increasing our domestic production and reducing our reliance on imported product is the best way to stabilize and reduce cost for Americans.

I agree with that if you could turn the clock back. But you can't so we are stuck making decisions with the cards we are dealt. Our producers here back into their prices like any producer on the globe, so if oil is selling for $130 a barrel, then that's what it will cost here.

I think we buy around 8% of our oil from Russia. That was a mistake to get involved in, but cutting the cord right now is going to result in what I said above. Higher prices for us and more profits for Putin.

Even though I don't like how we have this role as the world's babysitter, thereby setting the example for the world, I believe that if we stop buying Russian oil, most of the world will as well. It'll be hard for Putin to make much of a profit if only 5 countries are buying his oil.

[Animal]

Not if we weren't buying that much from them in the first place. Our buying from them is a direct result of our current domestic production policies. We have proven in the past we don't need their product yet some folks here would rather hamstring our domestic production and support a dictator instead.
Smart people understand that increasing our domestic production and reducing our reliance on imported product is the best way to stabilize and reduce cost for Americans.

I agree with that if you could turn the clock back. But you can't so we are stuck making decisions with the cards we are dealt. Our producers here back into their prices like any producer on the globe, so if oil is selling for $130 a barrel, then that's what it will cost here.

I think we buy around 8% of our oil from Russia. That was a mistake to get involved in, but cutting the cord right now is going to result in what I said above. Higher prices for us and more profits for Putin.

Even though I don't like how we have this role as the world's babysitter, thereby setting the example for the world, I believe that if we stop buying Russian oil, most of the world will as well. It'll be hard for Putin to make much of a profit if only 5 countries are buying his oil.

I think the Chinese will take all that he has to sell. I think they have been the problem with using oil as any kind of strategy.

[Deathproof]

Not if we weren't buying that much from them in the first place. Our buying from them is a direct result of our current domestic production policies. We have proven in the past we don't need their product yet some folks here would rather hamstring our domestic production and support a dictator instead.
Smart people understand that increasing our domestic production and reducing our reliance on imported product is the best way to stabilize and reduce cost for Americans.

I agree with that if you could turn the clock back. But you can't so we are stuck making decisions with the cards we are dealt. Our producers here back into their prices like any producer on the globe, so if oil is selling for $130 a barrel, then that's what it will cost here.

I think we buy around 8% of our oil from Russia. That was a mistake to get involved in, but cutting the cord right now is going to result in what I said above. Higher prices for us and more profits for Putin.

Even though I don't like how we have this role as the world's babysitter, thereby setting the example for the world, I believe that if we stop buying Russian oil, most of the world will as well. It'll be hard for Putin to make much of a profit if only 5 countries are buying his oil.

I think the Chinese will take all that he has to sell. I think they have been the problem with using oil as any kind of strategy.

But why would they buy more than they need? And if they did, would they really pay exorbitant prices for oil they don't even need? That doesn't make sense.

[Animal]

Not if we weren't buying that much from them in the first place. Our buying from them is a direct result of our current domestic production policies. We have proven in the past we don't need their product yet some folks here would rather hamstring our domestic production and support a dictator instead.
Smart people understand that increasing our domestic production and reducing our reliance on imported product is the best way to stabilize and reduce cost for Americans.

I agree with that if you could turn the clock back. But you can't so we are stuck making decisions with the cards we are dealt. Our producers here back into their prices like any producer on the globe, so if oil is selling for $130 a barrel, then that's what it will cost here.

I think we buy around 8% of our oil from Russia. That was a mistake to get involved in, but cutting the cord right now is going to result in what I said above. Higher prices for us and more profits for Putin.

Even though I don't like how we have this role as the world's babysitter, thereby setting the example for the world, I believe that if we stop buying Russian oil, most of the world will as well. It'll be hard for Putin to make much of a profit if only 5 countries are buying his oil.

I think the Chinese will take all that he has to sell. I think they have been the problem with using oil as any kind of strategy.

But why would they buy more than they need? And if they did, would they really pay exorbitant prices for oil they don't even need? That doesn't make sense.

they would not take more than they would need. China imports around 8 million barrels of oil a day. The US only imports around 200,000 barrels of oil a day from Russia. You don't think China would pick up that slack if russia gave them a slight discount? The chinese are already importing some of their oil from russia. If oil is trading at $120/barrel, Russia will easily sell the 200,000 barrels that we stop buying. Just look at the markets today on the news that they think Biden is going to stop buying Russian oil.

[Deathproof]

But does China need 200,000 barrels a day?

[Animal]

But does China need 200,000 barrels a day?

They import around 8 million barrels a day. They get around 2 million of that from Russia. They get around 2 million from Saudi Arabia, 1 million from Angola, 1 million from Iraq, 1 million from Oman, 1 million from Iran, then Brazil, Kuwait, Venezuala, and UAE. They could swap 200,000 barrels from any name on that list and pick up the slack for what russia needs to dump because of losing us.

[CHEEZY17]

Yes, losing just the US wouldnt hurt Russia. The entirety of NATO would have to be on board to really hurt them and as is evidenced here in real time, Europe is completely beholden to Russian energy. China probably couldnt pick up that much slack.

[CHEEZY17]

Honestly, I firmly believe this administration only cares about the high gas prices to the extent that it is hurting them politically. I think in many ways they WANT the price of gas to be higher. They WANT Americans to think gas is too expensive. They WANT Americans to think about electric cars. Theyre walking a tightrope right now of trying to look like theyre really concerned while quietly hoping it pushes us toward their green agenda.