Begat

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CentralTexasCrude
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Re: Begat

#26

Post by CentralTexasCrude »

Animal wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:18 pm
CentralTexasCrude wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:05 pm
Animal wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 2:04 am :lol:

but there sure have been a lot of branch davidian compounds sprouting up all over the country. or was it them that got the message?
I stand by my statement. As an example, Google Warren Jeff's Mormon off-shoot FLDS compound he established outside of Eldorado, Tx. About 15 years ago, the Feds were determined to bring him in after evidence surfaced of young girls being married off to senior leaders. How did they do that? They relied on State and Local LEO's to do their jobs serving warrants, searching the compound, collecting evidence and bringing those accused to trial. No Feds blasting through the front gates in tanks while helicopters with snipers hanging out of them circled overhead. You tell me who got the message.
The Fed's still use big buildings for their offices. You tell me who got the message? Do you honestly think that Timonthy McVeigh taught the Fed's a lesson? Law enforcement is always learning and changing tactics. Look at low speed chases vs high speed chases. Or inmates being put on suicide watch. They don't do these things because they have been given messages.
They sure aren't carrying out any military type operations like they did at Ruby Ridge and Waco killing innocent US citizens on US soil anymore. I stand by my "message received" statement. As ugly as that message was.
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Re: Begat

#27

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2 FBI Agents Killed, 3 Others Wounded In Raid In Southern Florida
February 2, 2021

Two FBI agents are dead and at least three others are wounded after a raid on a home in Sunrise, Fla., turned violent early Tuesday. The suspect reportedly barricaded himself in his home, where agents were serving a search warrant as part of a "violent crimes against children case," the FBI said in a statement. The suspect is also dead.

The violence erupted around 6 a.m. ET in the Water Terrace apartment complex in Sunrise, a city west of Fort Lauderdale in Broward County.

The raid involved a "team of law enforcement officers" who were executing a search warrant that was obtained through a federal court order, the FBI field office in Miami said.

Police in Sunrise warned of a "heavy police presence in the area" on Tuesday morning and urged residents to stay indoors. The massive law enforcement response included an FBI mobile command center and dozens of police patrol and tactical vehicles from multiple agencies. The police department later said that the area was safe but that an investigation was continuing.
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Re: Begat

#28

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Animal wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 8:03 pm 2 FBI Agents Killed, 3 Others Wounded In Raid In Southern Florida
February 2, 2021

Two FBI agents are dead and at least three others are wounded after a raid on a home in Sunrise, Fla., turned violent early Tuesday. The suspect reportedly barricaded himself in his home, where agents were serving a search warrant as part of a "violent crimes against children case," the FBI said in a statement. The suspect is also dead.

The violence erupted around 6 a.m. ET in the Water Terrace apartment complex in Sunrise, a city west of Fort Lauderdale in Broward County.

The raid involved a "team of law enforcement officers" who were executing a search warrant that was obtained through a federal court order, the FBI field office in Miami said.

Police in Sunrise warned of a "heavy police presence in the area" on Tuesday morning and urged residents to stay indoors. The massive law enforcement response included an FBI mobile command center and dozens of police patrol and tactical vehicles from multiple agencies. The police department later said that the area was safe but that an investigation was continuing.
I don't see any armored vehicles with agents in military garb and assault rifles exiting out the back deploying while snipers are hanging out of helicopters and stationed on top of buildings prior to an assault on a "soft target" containing innocent women and children anywhere in that story.
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Re: Begat

#29

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You keep talking about Feds in tall buildings. You live near Dallas. I invite you to go there when you can (or check out on Google Maps) and tell me what you see about security around that building (or any other in the US). You aren't getting within a quarter mile with any vehicle. Message was received and lessons were learned. Both Ruby Ridge and Waco started because of guns charges against Randy Weaver and Koresh. They both strolled around nearby towns and could have been picked up easily by local LE and had the matter resolved. But the FBI official in charge of Mobile Tactics was all gung-ho on a huge show of force- laws be damned. Congress funding issues and all that. Think of the character Tommy L Jones played in Fugitive and US Marshalls and give him a super steroid boost.
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Re: Begat

#30

Post by Burn1dwn »

The actions of the ATF caused Ruby Ridge and Waco more than the FBI sniper, no?
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Re: Begat

#31

Post by Animal »

CentralTexasCrude wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 8:49 pm
Animal wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 8:03 pm 2 FBI Agents Killed, 3 Others Wounded In Raid In Southern Florida
February 2, 2021

Two FBI agents are dead and at least three others are wounded after a raid on a home in Sunrise, Fla., turned violent early Tuesday. The suspect reportedly barricaded himself in his home, where agents were serving a search warrant as part of a "violent crimes against children case," the FBI said in a statement. The suspect is also dead.

The violence erupted around 6 a.m. ET in the Water Terrace apartment complex in Sunrise, a city west of Fort Lauderdale in Broward County.

The raid involved a "team of law enforcement officers" who were executing a search warrant that was obtained through a federal court order, the FBI field office in Miami said.

Police in Sunrise warned of a "heavy police presence in the area" on Tuesday morning and urged residents to stay indoors. The massive law enforcement response included an FBI mobile command center and dozens of police patrol and tactical vehicles from multiple agencies. The police department later said that the area was safe but that an investigation was continuing.
I don't see any armored vehicles with agents in military garb and assault rifles exiting out the back deploying while snipers are hanging out of helicopters and stationed on top of buildings prior to an assault on a "soft target" containing innocent women and children anywhere in that story.
snipers hanging out of helicopters and stationed on top of tall buildings? And you think they did that at Ruby Ridge and Waco?
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Re: Begat

#32

Post by Reservoir Dog »

Animal wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:49 pm
CentralTexasCrude wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 8:49 pm
Animal wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 8:03 pm 2 FBI Agents Killed, 3 Others Wounded In Raid In Southern Florida
February 2, 2021

Two FBI agents are dead and at least three others are wounded after a raid on a home in Sunrise, Fla., turned violent early Tuesday. The suspect reportedly barricaded himself in his home, where agents were serving a search warrant as part of a "violent crimes against children case," the FBI said in a statement. The suspect is also dead.

The violence erupted around 6 a.m. ET in the Water Terrace apartment complex in Sunrise, a city west of Fort Lauderdale in Broward County.

The raid involved a "team of law enforcement officers" who were executing a search warrant that was obtained through a federal court order, the FBI field office in Miami said.

Police in Sunrise warned of a "heavy police presence in the area" on Tuesday morning and urged residents to stay indoors. The massive law enforcement response included an FBI mobile command center and dozens of police patrol and tactical vehicles from multiple agencies. The police department later said that the area was safe but that an investigation was continuing.
I don't see any armored vehicles with agents in military garb and assault rifles exiting out the back deploying while snipers are hanging out of helicopters and stationed on top of buildings prior to an assault on a "soft target" containing innocent women and children anywhere in that story.
snipers hanging out of helicopters and stationed on top of tall buildings? And you think they did that at Ruby Ridge and Waco?
I think it's becoming pretty obvious that CTC is a Branch Davidian.
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Re: Begat

#33

Post by Animal »

Reservoir Dog wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:05 pm
I think it's becoming pretty obvious that CTC is a Branch Davidian.
loony bird seems to have forgotten that those Waco cops that started the Koresh thing were the same ones that started the shit with the bikers at a restaurant in town about 5 or 10 years ago. I guess they forgot Timothy's lesson that day.
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Re: Begat

#34

Post by Reservoir Dog »

Animal wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:32 pm
Reservoir Dog wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:05 pm
I think it's becoming pretty obvious that CTC is a Branch Davidian.
loony bird seems to have forgotten that those Waco cops that started the Koresh thing were the same ones that started the shit with the bikers at a restaurant in town about 5 or 10 years ago. I guess they forgot Timothy's lesson that day.
Remember when he got all excited and popped a boner when DEA, SWAT, US Marshalls, FBI, and a fucking tank hit the ditzy blonde's house across the street?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.

https://www.ujrefugees.net/viewtopic.php?t=2202
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Re: Begat

#35

Post by CentralTexasCrude »

Reservoir Dog wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:48 pm
Animal wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:32 pm
Reservoir Dog wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 10:05 pm
I think it's becoming pretty obvious that CTC is a Branch Davidian.
loony bird seems to have forgotten that those Waco cops that started the Koresh thing were the same ones that started the shit with the bikers at a restaurant in town about 5 or 10 years ago. I guess they forgot Timothy's lesson that day.
Remember when he got all excited and popped a boner when DEA, SWAT, US Marshalls, FBI, and a fucking tank hit the ditzy blonde's house across the street?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.

https://www.ujrefugees.net/viewtopic.php?t=2202
:lol:
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Re: Begat

#36

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Burn1dwn wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:38 pm The actions of the ATF caused Ruby Ridge and Waco more than the FBI sniper, no?
I pretty much doubt when Randy Weaver's wife Vicki was shot through the head and killed instantly while standing in a doorway holding their 10 month old infant, her last thought was wondering if the sniper was FBI or ATF. They are all Feds.
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Re: Begat

#37

Post by CentralTexasCrude »

Which leads us to the bottom photo in post #18. His name is Lon Horiuchi- top FBI sniper. At Ruby Ridge in one sniping session, he shot and wounded Randy Weaver, shot and wounded family friend Kevin Harris, shot and killed Randy's wife Vicki Weaver as she was holding her 10 month infant. Originally charged by officials from Idaho with Murder, later downgraded to manslaughter. Wound through the courts until the 9th Circuit reinstated the charges. Charges eventually dropped by Idaho. That's the first Begat.
At Waco, Lon Horiuchi was the lead FBI sniper. Fellow sniper Charles Riley reported to his superiors illegal sniper fire from Horiuchi's position in a sniper position in front of the compound. Texas Rangers later found 3 spent Winchester casings in front of his position. Riley retracted his claim and the FBI said they were from ATF agents that had been at that location before. That's the second Begat.
Which leads us to Begat #3/ I'll just post from the Wiki article-
"For the five months following the Waco inferno, Timothy McVeigh worked at gun shows and handed out free cards printed with Horiuchi's name and address, "in the hope that somebody in the Patriot movement would assassinate the sharpshooter". He wrote hate mail to the sniper, suggesting that "what goes around, comes around". McVeigh considered targeting Horiuchi, or a member of his family, before settling on a bombing attack on a federal building, choosing to target the Murrah Building.[12]"
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Re: Begat

#38

Post by Reservoir Dog »

CentralTexasCrude wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 1:51 am Which leads us to the bottom photo in post #18. His name is Lon Horiuchi- top FBI sniper. At Ruby Ridge in one sniping session, he shot and wounded Randy Weaver, shot and wounded family friend Kevin Harris, shot and killed Randy's wife Vicki Weaver as she was holding her 10 month infant. Originally charged by officials from Idaho with Murder, later downgraded to manslaughter. Wound through the courts until the 9th Circuit reinstated the charges. Charges eventually dropped by Idaho. That's the first Begat.
At Waco, Lon Horiuchi was the lead FBI sniper. Fellow sniper Charles Riley reported to his superiors illegal sniper fire from Horiuchi's position in a sniper position in front of the compound. Texas Rangers later found 3 spent Winchester casings in front of his position. Riley retracted his claim and the FBI said they were from ATF agents that had been at that location before. That's the second Begat.
Which leads us to Begat #3/ I'll just post from the Wiki article-
"For the five months following the Waco inferno, Timothy McVeigh worked at gun shows and handed out free cards printed with Horiuchi's name and address, "in the hope that somebody in the Patriot movement would assassinate the sharpshooter". He wrote hate mail to the sniper, suggesting that "what goes around, comes around". McVeigh considered targeting Horiuchi, or a member of his family, before settling on a bombing attack on a federal building, choosing to target the Murrah Building.[12]"
Called it !!!!
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Re: Begat

#39

Post by Burn1dwn »

CentralTexasCrude wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 11:21 pm
Burn1dwn wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:38 pm The actions of the ATF caused Ruby Ridge and Waco more than the FBI sniper, no?
I pretty much doubt when Randy Weaver's wife Vicki was shot through the head and killed instantly while standing in a doorway holding their 10 month old infant, her last thought was wondering if the sniper was FBI or ATF. They are all Feds.
Pretty sure McVeigh would have been pissed how both those previous raids went down even if you eliminate that sniper and his actions from both. Is what I meant.

McVeigh probably didn't believe FBI should have snipers in the first place.
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Re: Begat

#40

Post by CHEEZY17 »

Image
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
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Re: Begat

#41

Post by CentralTexasCrude »

Burn1dwn wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 3:02 pm
CentralTexasCrude wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 11:21 pm
Burn1dwn wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:38 pm The actions of the ATF caused Ruby Ridge and Waco more than the FBI sniper, no?
I pretty much doubt when Randy Weaver's wife Vicki was shot through the head and killed instantly while standing in a doorway holding their 10 month old infant, her last thought was wondering if the sniper was FBI or ATF. They are all Feds.
Pretty sure McVeigh would have been pissed how both those previous raids went down even if you eliminate that sniper and his actions from both. Is what I meant.

McVeigh probably didn't believe FBI should have snipers in the first place.
My whole point of this thread was to point out Randy Weaver died a week ago. His decision 33+ years ago to "fail" to show up at court to answer to a gun charge and publicly declare he wouldn't go to jail lead to a series of events (mainly massive escalation by the Feds there and at Waco- My opinion) that within 3 years or so would culminate in the deaths of almost 300 people and wounding of 700+ more. Almost everyone an Innocent US citizen killed on US soil. It lead to a massive distrust of the Federal Government not seen for over 100+ years and persists to this day for a huge number of American citizens.
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Re: Begat

#42

Post by Animal »

CentralTexasCrude wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 8:06 pm
Burn1dwn wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 3:02 pm
CentralTexasCrude wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 11:21 pm
Burn1dwn wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:38 pm The actions of the ATF caused Ruby Ridge and Waco more than the FBI sniper, no?
I pretty much doubt when Randy Weaver's wife Vicki was shot through the head and killed instantly while standing in a doorway holding their 10 month old infant, her last thought was wondering if the sniper was FBI or ATF. They are all Feds.
Pretty sure McVeigh would have been pissed how both those previous raids went down even if you eliminate that sniper and his actions from both. Is what I meant.

McVeigh probably didn't believe FBI should have snipers in the first place.
My whole point of this thread was to point out Randy Weaver died a week ago. His decision 33+ years ago to "fail" to show up at court to answer to a gun charge and publicly declare he wouldn't go to jail lead to a series of events (mainly massive escalation by the Feds there and at Waco- My opinion) that within 3 years or so would culminate in the deaths of almost 300 people and wounding of 700+ more. Almost everyone an Innocent US citizen killed on US soil. It lead to a massive distrust of the Federal Government not seen for over 100+ years and persists to this day for a huge number of American citizens.
Randy Weaver moved to bumfuck Idaho because of his huge distrust of the Federal Government. He was known at the time as a "separatist", meaning they even had a name for the people that distrusted the federal government as much as he did. That's pretty much the entire reason for the Branch Davidian compound and the reason they stockpiled weapons and lived in isolation. Those ideas have been around as long as governments have been in place.
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Re: Begat

#43

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Animal wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 8:12 pm
CentralTexasCrude wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 8:06 pm
Burn1dwn wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 3:02 pm
CentralTexasCrude wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 11:21 pm
Burn1dwn wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:38 pm The actions of the ATF caused Ruby Ridge and Waco more than the FBI sniper, no?
I pretty much doubt when Randy Weaver's wife Vicki was shot through the head and killed instantly while standing in a doorway holding their 10 month old infant, her last thought was wondering if the sniper was FBI or ATF. They are all Feds.
Pretty sure McVeigh would have been pissed how both those previous raids went down even if you eliminate that sniper and his actions from both. Is what I meant.

McVeigh probably didn't believe FBI should have snipers in the first place.
My whole point of this thread was to point out Randy Weaver died a week ago. His decision 33+ years ago to "fail" to show up at court to answer to a gun charge and publicly declare he wouldn't go to jail lead to a series of events (mainly massive escalation by the Feds there and at Waco- My opinion) that within 3 years or so would culminate in the deaths of almost 300 people and wounding of 700+ more. Almost everyone an Innocent US citizen killed on US soil. It lead to a massive distrust of the Federal Government not seen for over 100+ years and persists to this day for a huge number of American citizens.
Randy Weaver moved to bumfuck Idaho because of his huge distrust of the Federal Government. He was known at the time as a "separatist", meaning they even had a name for the people that distrusted the federal government as much as he did. That's pretty much the entire reason for the Branch Davidian compound and the reason they stockpiled weapons and lived in isolation. Those ideas have been around as long as governments have been in place.
I don't dispute that. The difference is the government going back to Revolution times has been aware of it and always let them be as long as they aren't some danger to their neighbors or communities. And in the case of Ruby Ridge And Waco, they just wanted to be left alone- which is theirs and your right under the Constitution as US citizens. But for some damn reason, in the early 90's, the Feds got all gung-ho about sticking their noses into minor local legal issues and going all out military assaults way out of proportions to the actual needs. Didn't seem to notice or care that they would be killing and injuring US citizens on US soil. The end result was almost 1,000 people dead or injured. Women and children burned to death or blown up at their place of employment and daycare. Luckily it seems that messages were sent and messages received by both sides. No more stockpiling guns way beyond what you need for defense and no more Feds busting in with tanks blazing away at your house of worship.
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Re: Begat

#44

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A similar incident happened a few years ago that makes my point. Some rancher (Don't remember his name- maybe someone can help me out) somewhere (Washington State- Oregon?) got into a legal dispute with the feds over something. I think it was grazing his cattle illegally on BLM land or something. Feds set up roadblocks at his ranch and they and the rancher and his sons met that looked to get ugly. Feds called in reinforcements-rancher called for help from ranchers in state and out. Everybody converged on the ranch. Looked like it was going to get bad. Finally, cooler heads prevailed and everybody agreed to back off and the situation was diffused. I think the elder rancher spent some time in jail. I would like to think when the 2 sides met to diffuse the situation, they were each reminded of what happened 30 years ago and that nobody wanted to be responsible for another Ruby Ridge-Waco-OKC. Begats have a way of reminding you that you don't want to go down that path again.
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Re: Begat

#45

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CentralTexasCrude wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 11:17 pm A similar incident happened a few years ago that makes my point. Some rancher (Don't remember his name- maybe someone can help me out) somewhere (Washington State- Oregon?) got into a legal dispute with the feds over something. I think it was grazing his cattle illegally on BLM land or something. Feds set up roadblocks at his ranch and they and the rancher and his sons met that looked to get ugly. Feds called in reinforcements-rancher called for help from ranchers in state and out. Everybody converged on the ranch. Looked like it was going to get bad. Finally, cooler heads prevailed and everybody agreed to back off and the situation was diffused. I think the elder rancher spent some time in jail. I would like to think when the 2 sides met to diffuse the situation, they were each reminded of what happened 30 years ago and that nobody wanted to be responsible for another Ruby Ridge-Waco-OKC. Begats have a way of reminding you that you don't want to go down that path again.
so, why did the cops showing up at the biker meeting at the restaurant in Waco end up in a gun fight (9 dead, 18 wounded, 177 arrested)? Do they fit some loophole in your logic?
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Re: Begat

#46

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If you can't tell the difference between what you just posted and what I'm talking about, I'm just going to have to assume you have swine flu. Of the feral kind.
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Re: Begat

#47

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yeah, that's what i thought. :lol:
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Re: Begat

#48

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When Bill Clinton (POTUS) and Janet Reno (his AG) were each asked separately at the end of their terms what was their biggest regret in office, they each had the exact same answer. Clinton- "Without a question- Waco".
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Re: Begat

#49

Post by Reservoir Dog »

CentralTexasCrude wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 2:12 am When Bill Clinton (POTUS) and Janet Reno (his AG) were each asked separately at the end of their terms what was their biggest regret in office, they each had the exact same answer. Clinton- "Without a question- Waco".
Actually, Clinton said his biggest regret was Rwanda.
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