I seem to remember, when Trump was leaving office, there was quite a public outrage over the speculation that Trump would issue "pre-emptive" pardons for his family members (like Jared Kushner).
the amount of hypocrisy in these last second pardons for family members and political allies is unbelievable. In 2021, just the speculation that Trump "might" issue pre-emptive pardons for family members put the democrats on a news blitz. Trump didn't actually pardon anyone except Kushner's father for some tax crimes he had been found guilty of in 2004. Nothing pre-emptive and none of the family members or Rudy Guilliana-type friends that they were speculating over.
But while Trump was being sworn in, Biden pre-emptively pardons all of his family and a bunch of politicians that had attacked Trump (Liz Cheney, Adam Schiff, etc)
Re: Last Minute Pardons
Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:33 pm
by Homebrew
Re: Last Minute Pardons
Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:34 pm
by Animal
I would love to have heard DOT's spin on this.
Re: Last Minute Pardons
Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:37 pm
by CHEEZY17
The best is the loooong list of Lefties that said "You don't need a pardon if you're not guilty" and then Biden proceeded to issue a stunning amount of blanket pardons.
Re: Last Minute Pardons
Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 9:39 pm
by Animal
CHEEZY17 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:37 pm
The best is the loooong list of Lefties that said "You don't need a pardon if you're not guilty" and then Biden proceeded to issue a stunning amount of blanket pardons.
didn't he pardon his brother? The one that wasn't laundering the kick backs to "the big guy"?
CHEEZY17 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 8:37 pm
The best is the loooong list of Lefties that said "You don't need a pardon if you're not guilty" and then Biden proceeded to issue a stunning amount of blanket pardons.
didn't he pardon his brother? The one that wasn't laundering the kick backs to "the big guy"?
Of course. All of the family members that received payments from the shell companies also got a pardon.
Re: Last Minute Pardons
Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:05 pm
by Geist
I really don't know how you people expect to be taken seriously when you only bring up pardon abuse when a Dem does it.
Re: Last Minute Pardons
Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:19 pm
by Reservoir Dog
Geist wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:05 pm
I really don't know how you people expect to be taken seriously when you only bring up pardon abuse when a Dem does it.
Fauci got a preemptive pardon because everyone knows that the man-child Donald Trump with his fragile ego was going to go after Fauci because Trump is STILL looking for someone to blame for his own gross incompetence and handling of the Covid pandemic.
Trump removed the United States from the World Health Organization for the same reason.
Geist wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:05 pm
I really don't know how you people expect to be taken seriously when you only bring up pardon abuse when a Dem does it.
Fauci got a preemptive pardon because everyone knows that the man-child Donald Trump with his fragile ego was going to go after Fauci because Trump is STILL looking for someone to blame for his own gross incompetence and handling of the Covid pandemic.
Trump removed the United States from the World Health Organization for the same reason.
Re: Last Minute Pardons
Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:38 pm
by Animal
Geist wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:05 pm
I really don't know how you people expect to be taken seriously when you only bring up pardon abuse when a Dem does it.
Well, here's the basic difference in the two.
Biden said he would not pardon his son and also said that if Trump pardoned his family that would be an abuse of the office.
Trump said that he was definitely going to pardon the Jan 6th protestors that were not charged with violent crimes.
do you spot the difference? If not, how about this.
Biden pardoned his family and political allies in the last minutes he was in office so he would not have to face the media.
Trump pardoned the Jan 6th protestors on his first day and then defended it to the media.
Geist wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:05 pm
I really don't know how you people expect to be taken seriously when you only bring up pardon abuse when a Dem does it.
Well, here's the basic difference in the two.
Biden said he would not pardon his son and also said that if Trump pardoned his family that would be an abuse of the office.
Trump said that he was definitely going to pardon the Jan 6th protestors that were not charged with violent crimes.
do you spot the difference? If not, how about this.
Biden pardoned his family and political allies in the last minutes he was in office so he would not have to face the media.
Trump pardoned the Jan 6th protestors on his first day and then defended it to the media.
Maybe you should do a little research on all the pardons from Trumps first term. If you take issues with his blantant political pardoning, then your words here might mean something.
Geist wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:05 pm
I really don't know how you people expect to be taken seriously when you only bring up pardon abuse when a Dem does it.
Well, here's the basic difference in the two.
Biden said he would not pardon his son and also said that if Trump pardoned his family that would be an abuse of the office.
Trump said that he was definitely going to pardon the Jan 6th protestors that were not charged with violent crimes.
do you spot the difference? If not, how about this.
Biden pardoned his family and political allies in the last minutes he was in office so he would not have to face the media.
Trump pardoned the Jan 6th protestors on his first day and then defended it to the media.
Maybe you should do a little research on all the pardons from Trumps first term. If you take issues with his blantant political pardoning, then your words here might mean something.
rather than me going through the whole list (which doesn't include any family members, unless you count Jared Kushner's father) how about if you just point out a few that you feel are so blatant. Or would be comparable to say "Biden's brother or his son".
I mean Biden himself said that doing that would be abuse of the office.
Geist wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:05 pm
I really don't know how you people expect to be taken seriously when you only bring up pardon abuse when a Dem does it.
Well, here's the basic difference in the two.
Biden said he would not pardon his son and also said that if Trump pardoned his family that would be an abuse of the office.
Trump said that he was definitely going to pardon the Jan 6th protestors that were not charged with violent crimes.
do you spot the difference? If not, how about this.
Biden pardoned his family and political allies in the last minutes he was in office so he would not have to face the media.
Trump pardoned the Jan 6th protestors on his first day and then defended it to the media.
Maybe you should do a little research on all the pardons from Trumps first term. If you take issues with his blantant political pardoning, then your words here might mean something.
rather than me going through the whole list (which doesn't include any family members, unless you count Jared Kushner's father) how about if you just point out a few that you feel are so blatant. Or would be comparable to say "Biden's brother or his son".
I mean Biden himself said that doing that would be abuse of the office.
Okay, so you're with ignorant and arbitrary selective outrage. Got it.
Geist wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:05 pm
I really don't know how you people expect to be taken seriously when you only bring up pardon abuse when a Dem does it.
Well, here's the basic difference in the two.
Biden said he would not pardon his son and also said that if Trump pardoned his family that would be an abuse of the office.
Trump said that he was definitely going to pardon the Jan 6th protestors that were not charged with violent crimes.
do you spot the difference? If not, how about this.
Biden pardoned his family and political allies in the last minutes he was in office so he would not have to face the media.
Trump pardoned the Jan 6th protestors on his first day and then defended it to the media.
Maybe you should do a little research on all the pardons from Trumps first term. If you take issues with his blantant political pardoning, then your words here might mean something.
rather than me going through the whole list (which doesn't include any family members, unless you count Jared Kushner's father) how about if you just point out a few that you feel are so blatant. Or would be comparable to say "Biden's brother or his son".
I mean Biden himself said that doing that would be abuse of the office.
Okay, so you're with ignorant and arbitrary selective outrage. Got it.
its funny when you have absolutely nothing to defend yourself with.
Geist wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 10:05 pm
I really don't know how you people expect to be taken seriously when you only bring up pardon abuse when a Dem does it.
Well, here's the basic difference in the two.
Biden said he would not pardon his son and also said that if Trump pardoned his family that would be an abuse of the office.
Trump said that he was definitely going to pardon the Jan 6th protestors that were not charged with violent crimes.
do you spot the difference? If not, how about this.
Biden pardoned his family and political allies in the last minutes he was in office so he would not have to face the media.
Trump pardoned the Jan 6th protestors on his first day and then defended it to the media.
Maybe you should do a little research on all the pardons from Trumps first term. If you take issues with his blantant political pardoning, then your words here might mean something.
rather than me going through the whole list (which doesn't include any family members, unless you count Jared Kushner's father) how about if you just point out a few that you feel are so blatant. Or would be comparable to say "Biden's brother or his son".
I mean Biden himself said that doing that would be abuse of the office.
Okay, so you're with ignorant and arbitrary selective outrage. Got it.
its funny when you have absolutely nothing to defend yourself with.
You sound like an uniformed hypocritical nonce on the subject. You've already admitted you know nothing about it yet have an opinion.
Re: Last Minute Pardons
Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:22 pm
by Geist
Here's a list, not that it will mean anything to non-critical thinkers.
Biden said he would not pardon his son and also said that if Trump pardoned his family that would be an abuse of the office.
Trump said that he was definitely going to pardon the Jan 6th protestors that were not charged with violent crimes.
do you spot the difference? If not, how about this.
Biden pardoned his family and political allies in the last minutes he was in office so he would not have to face the media.
Trump pardoned the Jan 6th protestors on his first day and then defended it to the media.
Maybe you should do a little research on all the pardons from Trumps first term. If you take issues with his blantant political pardoning, then your words here might mean something.
rather than me going through the whole list (which doesn't include any family members, unless you count Jared Kushner's father) how about if you just point out a few that you feel are so blatant. Or would be comparable to say "Biden's brother or his son".
I mean Biden himself said that doing that would be abuse of the office.
Okay, so you're with ignorant and arbitrary selective outrage. Got it.
its funny when you have absolutely nothing to defend yourself with.
You sound like an uniformed hypocritical nonce on the subject. You've already admitted you know nothing about it yet have an opinion.
Maybe you should do a little research on all the pardons from Trumps first term. If you take issues with his blantant political pardoning, then your words here might mean something.
rather than me going through the whole list (which doesn't include any family members, unless you count Jared Kushner's father) how about if you just point out a few that you feel are so blatant. Or would be comparable to say "Biden's brother or his son".
I mean Biden himself said that doing that would be abuse of the office.
Okay, so you're with ignorant and arbitrary selective outrage. Got it.
its funny when you have absolutely nothing to defend yourself with.
You sound like an uniformed hypocritical nonce on the subject. You've already admitted you know nothing about it yet have an opinion.
great talk. you made some fantastic points.
Hey, I matched my effort to the level of understanding you brought to the table so confidently.
Re: Last Minute Pardons
Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:28 pm
by Animal
Geist wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:22 pm
Here's a list, not that it will mean anything to non-critical thinkers.
I've seen the list, dumb fuck. Now, take that list and make some connection to similar pardon's like Biden pre-emptively pardoning his brother and liz cheney and adam schiff and Dr Fauci and.............
in fact name just one person on your WIKI list that Trump gave a pre-emptive pardon. Even Kushner's dad pled guilty many years before to the crimes he was pardoned for.
Re: Last Minute Pardons
Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:30 pm
by Animal
or maybe you don't grasp the meaning of pre-emptive.
Re: Last Minute Pardons
Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:36 pm
by Geist
Animal wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:30 pm
or maybe you don't grasp the meaning of pre-emptive.
Hey genius, you drawing an arbitrary and meaningless line means exactly that. Nothing. You were silent when Trump was forgiving traitors and corrupt politicians, and only now you want to speak up once you were propagandized into doing so. Anything you decide to complain about now is just words from a half-asleep retarded gasbag.
Re: Last Minute Pardons
Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2025 2:47 am
by CHEEZY17
Questionable Presidential pardons at the end of their term are pretty standard. It doesn't make it right. I personally HATED Trump's pardon of former Detroit mayor Kwame Kilpatrick; it was a ridiculous pander to the black vote (that failed miserably as most black Detroiters, rightfully, hate Kwame).
The problem with Shit Shows pardons are the scope and breadth of the pardons with many of them having the troubling aspect of being preemptive.
To my knowledge very few, if any, presidential preemptive pardons have been issued to people that haven't been charged with anything. Ford's pardon of Nixon might have been preemptive. The fact that these preemptive pardons were given to close family members that received money from Biden shell companies further adds to their dubiousness and questionability. It's a shitty situation all around and probably won't get any better as long as a POTUS has that option. We're relying on (usually) career politicians to do the right thing and that is often a tall order.
Also factor in the precedent of a POTUS issuing a flurry of preemptive pardons to loyalists and family members. Does this mean a president can now just tell anyone in his circle to go do some nefarious stuff with the comfort and assurance of knowing that a last minute preemptive pardon will be coming? Preemptive pardons are (were) exceptionally rare and I don't think we want to go down the road of normalizing them.
Animal wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:30 pm
or maybe you don't grasp the meaning of pre-emptive.
Hey genius, you drawing an arbitrary and meaningless line means exactly that. Nothing. You were silent when Trump was forgiving traitors and corrupt politicians, and only now you want to speak up once you were propagandized into doing so. Anything you decide to complain about now is just words from a half-asleep retarded gasbag.
Oh my God, you're like the ghost of Dot. Can't intelligently defend your position so you attack the guy making an intelligent argument and deflect to the Orange Man. "But Trump, but Trump!" It doesn't matter what Trump has done. It's irrelevant to this conversation which is specifically about the preemptive pardons. The facts of the matter are that 4 years ago, when there was conjecture that Trump might issue preemptive pardons, Biden and all of the Dems are on record condemning exactly what Sleepy Joe did on Monday. They were all saying that such a pardon points to guilt. The point here is the hypocrisy and obvious corruption of Biden and the Dems. Now you get back to your TDS therapy sessions. You clearly need them.
Animal wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2025 11:30 pm
or maybe you don't grasp the meaning of pre-emptive.
Hey genius, you drawing an arbitrary and meaningless line means exactly that. Nothing. You were silent when Trump was forgiving traitors and corrupt politicians, and only now you want to speak up once you were propagandized into doing so. Anything you decide to complain about now is just words from a half-asleep retarded gasbag.
Oh my God, you're like the ghost of Dot. Can't intelligently defend your position so you attack the guy making an intelligent argument and deflect to the Orange Man. "But Trump, but Trump!" It doesn't matter what Trump has done. It's irrelevant to this conversation which is specifically about the preemptive pardons. The facts of the matter are that 4 years ago, when there was conjecture that Trump might issue preemptive pardons, Biden and all of the Dems are on record condemning exactly what Sleepy Joe did on Monday. They were all saying that such a pardon points to guilt. The point here is the hypocrisy and obvious corruption of Biden and the Dems. Now you get back to your TDS therapy sessions. You clearly need them.
Don't reply to me, beta. You have nothing of value to add but unintelligent drivel from a drop-out.
Re: Last Minute Pardons
Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:26 pm
by Animal
CHEEZY17 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 2:47 am
Questionable Presidential pardons at the end of their term are pretty standard. It doesn't make it right. I personally HATED Trump's pardon of former Detroit mayor Kwame Kilpatrick; it was a ridiculous pander to the black vote (that failed miserably as most black Detroiters, rightfully, hate Kwame).
The problem with Shit Shows pardons are the scope and breadth of the pardons with many of them having the troubling aspect of being preemptive.
To my knowledge very few, if any, presidential preemptive pardons have been issued to people that haven't been charged with anything. Ford's pardon of Nixon might have been preemptive. The fact that these preemptive pardons were given to close family members that received money from Biden shell companies further adds to their dubiousness and questionability. It's a shitty situation all around and probably won't get any better as long as a POTUS has that option. We're relying on (usually) career politicians to do the right thing and that is often a tall order.
Also factor in the precedent of a POTUS issuing a flurry of preemptive pardons to loyalists and family members. Does this mean a president can now just tell anyone in his circle to go do some nefarious stuff with the comfort and assurance of knowing that a last minute preemptive pardon will be coming? Preemptive pardons are (were) exceptionally rare and I don't think we want to go down the road of normalizing them.
I think we all know what the point of Biden's actions were. He knew that what he had done to Trump was to go after every kind of charge they could drum up and see which ones stuck. Whether he had done anything wrong or not. And he didn't want that same game played against his family. Especially with what he knew they had done.
