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What's your take on them? i would like to better understand how all of this trickles down to the american people.

pork wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 3:25 pm What's your take on them? i would like to better understand how all of this trickles down to the american people.

I really don't understand it either. I heard Mr Wonderful (shark tank guy) explaining some of it and he was basically saying that this is sort of an attempt to do a full reset on the system. For example, after WWII we wanted to help Japan rebuild their country after the tremendous losses that they suffered in the war. So, we knew that our dollar was strong and they were going to need a shit ton of American products and imports in order to rebuild. So, we agreed to let them put huge tarriffs (like 100%) on any products that they imported from the US and the tarriffs they collected would go toward rebuilding their country. It was our way to help them pay for the rebuilding. And those sort of things were done all over the world to varying degrees and for various reasons.

However many of those tarriffs are still in place and make no sense any longer. No one even remembers now why there are certain tarriffs on certain products. So, they are trying to get a clean slate and re-set the system.

The reason you hear about a tarriff today and then hear it was postponed or cancelled within hours or days, is because this is a huge negotiation with lots of give and take and lots and lots of moving pieces that don't get reported.

I still dont really get it. I understand its a negotiating tactic for the most part. if the government is the one collecting the money from the other country and in return it raises the prices to the consumer here...i dont see how blowing up the system helps anyone except the government. if there was a written set of rules that would be helpful. for instance when we collect 10 billion in money from x country we lower federal income taxes 5% for everyone. i dont know. if they could explain the benefits and ho it works i think we would all be in a better place.

pork wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 3:54 pm I still dont really get it. I understand its a negotiating tactic for the most part. if the government is the one collecting the money from the other country and in return it raises the prices to the consumer here...i dont see how blowing up the system helps anyone except the government. if there was a written set of rules that would be helpful. for instance when we collect 10 billion in money from x country we lower federal income taxes 5% for everyone. i dont know. if they could explain the benefits and ho it works i think we would all be in a better place.

Well the governments are the ones collecting the taxes, but the producers of the goods are the ones that are impacted. If a bunch of countries raise their tarriffs for US wheat (for example) then the wheat farmers in the US will end up with a bunch of unsold wheat. Their supply goes up, the demand went down, so their prices go to shit. They lose twice. Cheaper prices and fewer buyers.

Those are the outcomes you do not want. But those are the outcomes that no one knows if they are going to happen yet. And those are the outcomes that are concerning investors.

i guess the ultimate goal to force manufacturing back here too

Tariffs are not new and countries have used them for a looooong time.
Ideally, the goal of the tariffs, from our perspective, is to increase American production in two ways:
1.) Because foreign imports will now be more expensive, in theory Americans will look to purchase American made products-helping American companies.
2.) Foreign companies, that don't want to lose out on the biggest economy in the world, will relocate some of their production to the USA- which in turn creates American jobs.
The obvious down side is retaliatory tariffs that make imported American made products more expensive which could hurt American production.

From the foreign perspective, and ours too in a sense, a country will often enact a tariff to "protect" what they might consider a vital industry. Think of European cheeses, chocolates or Japanese automobiles just to name a few. By enacting the tariff, imports to their country will be more costly thus "protecting" what they perceive as vital industries.
As an example of what Trump is talking about let's look at autos:
The EU currently charges a 10% tariff on US autos being imported.
Conversely, The US only charges a 2.5% tariff on European autos entering the country.

I agree this seems to be an attempted "reset" to get everything back on a level playing field.

pork wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 5:13 pm i guess the ultimate goal to force manufacturing back here too

Trump's goals with his trade war seem to be bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US by making Chinese goods more expensive, trying to eliminate income tax by creating a External Tax Revenue system, making Mexico reign in the illegal immigrants/fentanyl that pour through it's borders, and pissing off Canada enough to become the 51st state.  

None of these things will happen fast (if at all) and will cost US citizens more money while he tries it out.

if manufacturing does make it back here...who the fuck wants to work in a plant?

pork wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:17 pm if manufacturing does make it back here...who the fuck wants to work in a plant?

Illegal immigrants and serial killers.

Burn1dwn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:19 pm

pork wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:17 pm if manufacturing does make it back here...who the fuck wants to work in a plant?

Illegal immigrants and serial killers.

well there goes that plan. i guess we will have a bunch of plants and no workers.

47 is playing 5D Chess

Burn1dwn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:19 pm

pork wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:17 pm if manufacturing does make it back here...who the fuck wants to work in a plant?

Illegal immigrants and serial killers.

There has been a serious uptick in college age kids that want to get a technical/trade school education vs traditional liberal arts school. Shorter education period, lower educational expenses and becoming employed quicker at salary rate comparable to 4-year scholars. Bodes well for manufacturing.

Hell yeah. The revenge of of the blue collar!
A good skilled tradesman can top over 150k per year (depending on the skill of course) with no college debt and an almost guaranteed job forever.

Ricrude wrote: ↑Fri Mar 21, 2025 12:54 pm

Burn1dwn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:19 pm

pork wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:17 pm if manufacturing does make it back here...who the fuck wants to work in a plant?

Illegal immigrants and serial killers.

There has been a serious uptick in college age kids that want to get a technical/trade school education vs traditional liberal arts school. Shorter education period, lower educational expenses and becoming employed quicker at salary rate comparable to 4-year scholars. Bodes well for manufacturing.

You are defintely right that young people want different options and paths to financial security. But...

Do you really think companies moving manufacturing jobs back to the US to avoid tariffs are going to pass the savings into employee salaries?

There is a reason that without tariffs, exporting manufacturing jobs is the current MO of these companies. Cheap labor, minimal regulation and lower living costs for their employees. Also, the cost of moving the factories/plants back to the US (which will take decades)will be passed on to the consumers.

pork wrote: ↑Thu Mar 20, 2025 3:26 pm

Burn1dwn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:19 pm

pork wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:17 pm if manufacturing does make it back here...who the fuck wants to work in a plant?

Illegal immigrants and serial killers.

well there goes that plan. i guess we will have a bunch of plants and no workers.

Robots

Burn1dwn wrote: ↑Fri Mar 21, 2025 5:42 pm

Ricrude wrote: ↑Fri Mar 21, 2025 12:54 pm

Burn1dwn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:19 pm

pork wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:17 pm if manufacturing does make it back here...who the fuck wants to work in a plant?

Illegal immigrants and serial killers.

There has been a serious uptick in college age kids that want to get a technical/trade school education vs traditional liberal arts school. Shorter education period, lower educational expenses and becoming employed quicker at salary rate comparable to 4-year scholars. Bodes well for manufacturing.

You are defintely right that young people want different options and paths to financial security. But...

Do you really think companies moving manufacturing jobs back to the US to avoid tariffs are going to pass the savings into employee salaries?

There is a reason that without tariffs, exporting manufacturing jobs is the current MO of these companies. Cheap labor, minimal regulation and lower living costs for their employees. Also, the cost of moving the factories/plants back to the US (which will take decades)will be passed on to the consumers.

any company that moves manufacturing jobs back to the US will pay whatever salaries are required to fill their job demand. At whatever that cost might be. Just like every other company in the US. If there is no demand for the job the salaries will go up until there is a demand. If that doesn't create a demand then they won't be opening any factories in the US. A business owner can't set pay levels at whatever they want and get people to hire on for that pay. When it comes to labor, the old saying of "you get what you pay for" is very applicable.

Animal wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 1:27 pm

Burn1dwn wrote: ↑Fri Mar 21, 2025 5:42 pm

Ricrude wrote: ↑Fri Mar 21, 2025 12:54 pm

Burn1dwn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:19 pm

pork wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:17 pm if manufacturing does make it back here...who the fuck wants to work in a plant?

Illegal immigrants and serial killers.

There has been a serious uptick in college age kids that want to get a technical/trade school education vs traditional liberal arts school. Shorter education period, lower educational expenses and becoming employed quicker at salary rate comparable to 4-year scholars. Bodes well for manufacturing.

You are defintely right that young people want different options and paths to financial security. But...

Do you really think companies moving manufacturing jobs back to the US to avoid tariffs are going to pass the savings into employee salaries?

There is a reason that without tariffs, exporting manufacturing jobs is the current MO of these companies. Cheap labor, minimal regulation and lower living costs for their employees. Also, the cost of moving the factories/plants back to the US (which will take decades)will be passed on to the consumers.

any company that moves manufacturing jobs back to the US will pay whatever salaries are required to fill their job demand. At whatever that cost might be. Just like every other company in the US. If there is no demand for the job the salaries will go up until there is a demand. If that doesn't create a demand then they won't be opening any factories in the US. A business owner can't set pay levels at whatever they want and get people to hire on for that pay. When it comes to labor, the old saying of "you get what you pay for" is very applicable.

True...and smaller companies competing with larger companies that have their labor force out of the country have some advantage of scaling up production and increasing their labor from the available pool in the US.

Ricrude wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 6:39 pm

Animal wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 1:27 pm

Burn1dwn wrote: ↑Fri Mar 21, 2025 5:42 pm

Ricrude wrote: ↑Fri Mar 21, 2025 12:54 pm

Burn1dwn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:19 pm

pork wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 6:17 pm if manufacturing does make it back here...who the fuck wants to work in a plant?

Illegal immigrants and serial killers.

There has been a serious uptick in college age kids that want to get a technical/trade school education vs traditional liberal arts school. Shorter education period, lower educational expenses and becoming employed quicker at salary rate comparable to 4-year scholars. Bodes well for manufacturing.

You are defintely right that young people want different options and paths to financial security. But...

Do you really think companies moving manufacturing jobs back to the US to avoid tariffs are going to pass the savings into employee salaries?

There is a reason that without tariffs, exporting manufacturing jobs is the current MO of these companies. Cheap labor, minimal regulation and lower living costs for their employees. Also, the cost of moving the factories/plants back to the US (which will take decades)will be passed on to the consumers.

any company that moves manufacturing jobs back to the US will pay whatever salaries are required to fill their job demand. At whatever that cost might be. Just like every other company in the US. If there is no demand for the job the salaries will go up until there is a demand. If that doesn't create a demand then they won't be opening any factories in the US. A business owner can't set pay levels at whatever they want and get people to hire on for that pay. When it comes to labor, the old saying of "you get what you pay for" is very applicable.

True...and smaller companies competing with larger companies that have their labor force out of the country have some advantage of scaling up production and increasing their labor from the available pool in the US.

shark tank has done more to ruin american manufacturing than anything. Although, maybe its just the mouthpiece that we hear it from. For years, they literally laugh and point at anyone that tries to produce in America and every one of the sharks says that the first thing they will do is find a supplier in China or some other Asian country. They don't talk about cutting costs by 5 or 10%. They do it to cut 50 to 75% of the cost. Granted, the cost of wages in China MUST have gone up in the past few years. But even if it has tripled, its still not even close to a comparison. But the bigger advantage they have is that people are climbing over people for those jobs. No matter how trivial or monotonous they might be.

We simply have to learn to compete by farming out the production to over seas. If that means figuring out a way to collect income tax even on over seas production, then we have to do it. For a company to actually take advantage of the cheap production and taxes, they have to live there.

Sad state of affairs...but probably true.

Imagine being against efforts to bringing manufacturing back tho this country

Biker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 5:02 pm Imagine being against efforts to bringing manufacturing back tho this country

Imagine realising that the majority of manufacturing will be done by robots and not humans.

Are your bags packed yet?

Well, tomorrow is D-Day. April 2nd. The day that we are all supposed to understand what Trump is doing. I'm looking forward to tomorrow.

Canada Slaps Tariffs on Flamethrowers, Manatee Meat, Fake Beards, and Live Monkeys in Response to Trump

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/trumps-tar ... y-tariffs/

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2025/ ... e-monkeys/