Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#26

Post by dot »

CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:03 am Fuckin A.
The Heritage Foundation is about the most well known Conservative think tank and research outfit there is. That doesnt change the fact that the database they created is based on actual court cases and convictions. Its literally just an assemblage of fraud cases in the USA. If you want to read more into it then I suppose thats up to you.
It also doesnt change the fact that you got lied to by Mother Jones and that hack in the article.
https://www.salon.com/2021/03/27/conser ... pass-them/
Conservative groups are writing GOP voter suppression bills — and spending millions to pass them

Right-wing groups like Heritage and ALEC are crafting model legislation as GOP pushes over 250 restrictions
By IGOR DERYSH
Senior News Editor

Republican state lawmakers who have rolled out more than 250 bills to restrict ballot access in more than 40 states, largely in response to President Donald Trump's false claims about election fraud, are receiving financial backing from an unusual coalition of Christian and "small government" groups.

The Family Research Council, the Susan B. Anthony List and the American Principles Project — all faith-based nonprofits — are spending millions to boost a Republican-led effort to restrict voting in dozens of states after the party lost the White House and the Senate amid record turnout and mail-in voting. Meanwhile, libertarian-leaning groups like FreedomWorks, Heritage Action — the political arm of the Heritage Foundation — and Tea Party Patriots are also planning an eight-figure investment to back the effort, which has already seen 253 restrictive bills introduced in 43 states, according to a Brennan Center for Justice analysis. Heritage Action also plans to team with allies like the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) to craft model legislation for state lawmakers to adopt.

"The bills being introduced are similar, and with good reason," said Rep. Colin Allred, D-Texas, a civil rights attorney who has worked on voting rights cases across the country. "The RNC and national Republican groups have drafted 'best practices' for voter suppression that state legislatures can use."

Trump stoked unfounded fears about mail-in voting, without any evidence, for months before the election as he floundered in the polls. He continued to claim that the election was somehow rigged or stolen after his loss but failed to provide any evidence, losing every legal battle in the process. Trump's claims raised tens of millions from his supporters, though he spent just a small fraction of that on actual legal costs while dropping far more on fundraising ads and pocketing the rest for his super PAC. Now his conservative allies are targeting donors who bought into his false election claims, justifying their push by citing voter concerns about "election integrity."

Frank Cannon, senior strategist for the Susan B. Anthony List and American Principles Project, told The New York Times that conservative activists quickly realized that the only way they could keep donations rolling in is by making the effort to restrict voting access the "center of gravity in the party."

Terry Schilling, who heads the American Principles Project, admitted that he doesn't buy into some of the nonsensical conspiracy theories pushed by Trump and his allies, but said the issue was the biggest priority for the group's donor base.

"I'm not someone who thinks that China hacked the voting machines," he told the Times, seemingly referring to a baseless conspiracy theory pushed by former Trump lawyer Sidney Powell, whose attorneys have said in recent court filings that "no reasonable person" could accept her claims as fact. But Schilling added, "If you're a conservative organization and you have small-dollar donors, you're hearing this from everywhere: 'Well, what's the point in voting?'"

The two groups, which spent more than $20 million on the election last year, have set a $5 million fundraising goal for their "election transparency" campaign and hired former Trump Homeland Security official Ken Cuccinelli to lead the effort.

But Democratic groups say Republicans are using lies about the election to advance laws that disproportionately impact voters of color.

"Conservative groups and many Republican state legislators are engaged in a nationwide effort to make it harder for people to vote, particularly people of color, low-income individuals, seniors and students," Ben Berwick, counsel at the nonpartisan nonprofit Protect Democracy, said in a statement to Salon. "The idea that this effort is about 'election integrity' or 'voter concerns' is a smokescreen — there is cross-partisan expert agreement that the 2020 election was among the most secure and successful in modern American history."

The Family Research Council, which spent years advising Trump on anti-LGBTQ issues and "religious freedom," has also joined the push to restrict ballot access.

"We've got 106 election-related bills that are in 28 states right now," FRC president Tony Perkins said at a recent "Pray Vote Stand Townhall" alongside Michael Farris, the president of the Christian legal group Alliance Defending Freedom, according to the Times. "So here's the good news: There is action taking place to go back and correct what was uncovered in this last election."

Of course, dozens of election challenges failed to "uncover" any evidence of widespread fraud at all, as did multiple Republican-led audits and recounts of close vote counts in states like Arizona and Georgia — where even law enforcement investigated allegations of fraud and found no evidence. Former Attorney General Bill Barr likewise acknowledged that there was no evidence of widespread fraud that could have changed the election result and the Department of Homeland Security's Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency concluded the election was the "most secure in American history."

"Any doubts about that fact stem from Republican lawmakers spreading conspiracy theories about it for political gain," said Jessica Post, president of the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee, in a statement to Salon. "Nothing Republicans are proposing would do anything to make our elections any safer or more secure. How would shortening in-person voting hours make elections more secure? How would limiting in-person early voting make our elections safer? It wouldn't, and Republicans know that. Their proposals are simply setting up unnecessary barriers to voting to target communities of color. If Republicans are concerned with integrity, they should stop lying."

Perkins made clear at the town hall that his real interest was in making sure Democrats do not win elections, noting that his home state of Louisiana has consistently voted for Republicans after the state legislature created stricter voting laws after Democrats won a Senate seat in 1996.

"When you have free, fair elections, you're going to have outcomes that are positive," he said, according to the Associated Press.

"It's a deeply undemocratic attempt to game the system to gain an unfair advantage," Berwick told Salon. "To make matters worse, it is premised on a lie that the 2020 presidential election was stolen. Some voters bought that lie, and now these Republican legislators claim that they need to make it harder to vote in order to restore voter confidence in the democratic process, when they helped to undermine that confidence in the first place."

FreedomWorks, which gained prominence by organizing Tea Party protests in 2009 and 2010 with financial backing from the vast Koch donor network, is also launching a big-money effort to back the restrictions after allying itself with Trump. The group has launched a $10 million effort to back voting restrictions led by Cleta Mitchell, a prominent conservative lawyer who assisted Trump's election challenge before she was forced to resign from her law firm after participating in Trump's now-notorious phone call urging Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to "find" enough votes to overturn his loss.

The Koch network and the Koch-backed Americans for Prosperity, which splintered from FreedomWorks, is notably not involved in the effort. Billionaire Charles Koch said after the election that he regretted not being more forceful in pushing back against Trump, and Americans for Prosperity said it would "weigh heavy" the actions of Republican lawmakers who pushed lies about the election and objected to the electoral vote count after the deadly Capitol riot.

But other Koch-backed groups, like ALEC, remain heavily involved in the restriction push. The group, best known for crafting model conservative legislation that is distributed to lawmakers around the country, recently hosted a call with Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas and many state lawmakers to organize opposition to H.R. 1, a sweeping Democratic bill that would expand voting rights, according to the AP.

ALEC did not respond to questions from Salon about whether it was involved in crafting any of the proposed restrictions. An internal document obtained by The New York Times shows that Heritage Action plans to work with groups like ALEC to "produce model legislation for state legislatures to adopt." The Times found that at least 23 of 68 bills introduced in Georgia to restrict voting had language strikingly similar to that of a Heritage Action letter distributed to state legislators in January. The group has also claimed credit for a new Arizona law signed into law last week that requires the secretary of state to compare death records to voter registrations.

Jessica Anderson, the executive director of Heritage Action, told the AP that "it kind of feels like an all-hands-on-deck moment for the conservative movement" because "voter distrust is at an all-time high." Heritage Action plans to spend $24 million to support Republican efforts in Georgia, Arizona, Florida, Iowa, Michigan, Nevada, Texas and Wisconsin, most recently dropping $700,000 on an ad campaign to support Republican bills in Georgia that have been slammed by Democrats and voting rights activists as "Jim Crow in a suit and tie." Heritage Action officials told CNN they also have about 20,000 activists on the ground backing the Georgia bills, which include measures restricting ballot drop boxes, requiring voter ID for mail-in ballots, and making it a crime to give water to voters waiting in long lines.

Another Trump-allied group that vowed to spend "whatever it takes" to combat the expansion of mail voting is the Honest Elections Project, formed by longtime Federalist Society leader and informal Trump adviser Leonard Leo last year to combat the expansion of mail voting amid the pandemic. The group has already dropped $250,000 on a cable news ad campaign aimed at fighting the "brazen attempt to manipulate the election system for partisan advantage." The group rolled out a laundry list of proposed voting restrictions to limit mail voting earlier this month. Jason Snead, the group's executive director, insisted to NBC News that "there are a lot more opportunities for malfeasance" with mail-in voting even though studies have found that mail ballot fraud is nearly nonexistent and Snead admitted to the AP that the group's own investigation found "no evidence of widespread fraud."

Despite a lack of evidence that the massive 2020 increase in mail-in voting resulted in any widespread fraud, many of the proposed restrictions are expected to pass.

"Republicans control the statehouses and the governorship in 23 states, including Georgia, Arizona and Iowa. If these states want to pass legislation to restrict voting access, and have internal support in their party, they can," Jessica Huseman, editorial director of the nonpartisan news outlet VoteBeat, said in a statement. "The ID bills that would require additional forms of ID for mailed ballots are most likely to pass — ID bills generally have strong popular support. The bills that would eliminate or dramatically roll back automatic voter registration or any form of mailed ballots are likely non-starters, largely because Republicans were often the source of these bills. Ultimately, many of these states will restrict voting — the states' Republican lawmakers feel it is politically untenable for them not to."

Marc Elias, a top Democratic lawyer, vowed to challenge many of the restrictions in court but acknowledged in an interview with Salon last month that "eventually enough of these will stick that it will really, really change the nature of participatory democracy in our country."

Democrats responded to the unprecedented restriction push by ratcheting up the urgency to pass an expansion of the Voting Rights Act and H.R. 1, a sweeping election reform bill that includes automatic voter registration, a ban on improper voter purges and partisan gerrymandering, restoration of voting rights for people with prior convictions and a universal right to vote by mail, among other measures.

Though the bill is massive and may pose problems with implementation, Republicans have falsely stoked fears about its provisions.

Cruz falsely told Republican state lawmakers on the ALEC call that the bill would expand voting rights to "illegal aliens," according to the AP. It does not.

"H.R. 1's only objective is to ensure that Democrats can never again lose another election, that they will win and maintain control of the House of Representatives and the Senate and of the state legislatures for the next century," he claimed on the call.

Ben Ginsberg, one of the most prominent Republican election lawyers in the country who rejected the GOP's "multimillion-dollar effort to disenfranchise voters," argued that Cruz's complaint was a more apt description of his own party's priorities.

"Look at what it really means," he told The New York Times. "A party that's increasingly old and white whose base is a diminishing share of the population is conjuring up charges of fraud to erect barriers to voting for people it fears won't support its candidates."

Republicans backing the restrictions have increasingly said the quiet part aloud.

Michael Carvin, an attorney for the Arizona Republican Party, argued in a Supreme Court case earlier this month that the party is targeting certain voting changes to avoid being at a "competitive disadvantage relative to Democrats."

Arizona state Rep. John Kavanagh told CNN earlier this month that he advanced bills restricting ballot access because "everybody shouldn't be voting."

"There's a fundamental difference between Democrats and Republicans," Kavanagh said. "Democrats value as many people as possible voting, and they're willing to risk fraud. Republicans are more concerned about fraud, so we don't mind putting security measures in that won't let everybody vote. … Quantity is important, but we have to look at the quality of votes, as well."

Republican statements about gaining a partisan advantage and using the issue to raise money undermine their claims that this new wave of restrictions are in response to voter concerns about "election integrity." But even that argument ignores the concerns of the much larger majority of voters who are not part of the GOP base, civil rights groups say.

"These efforts seek only to put up barriers to silence our voices, based on who we are, where we live or how we vote," Hannah Fried, the national director of All Voting is Local, a civil rights campaign targeting voter restrictions, said in a statement to Salon, noting that 65 million voters cast their ballots by mail in the last election. "This is not what voters want, or what voters deserve. Most of us simply want everyone to have the freedom to vote — where we all can have a say in and trust the integrity of our elections. The majority of Americans support efforts to give voters more options for voting safely — not less."


Less than a minute. That's all the time it took to find that which you don't want to acknowledge. It took me more time to format the post than it did to find the material. Heritage is not just a website or think tank. Feel free to remain ignorant though, clearly awareness short circuits your outlook on life.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#27

Post by CHEEZY17 »

So a conservative group tries to advance conservative causes? Oh noes!!!!1 What is it you think I dont want to acknowledge...that theyre political? Or that they do political things? Of course they do you goofball. That doesnt change the fact that the compiled database is actual real life cases and convictions of fraud. I know that bothers you but facts is facts homeschool.
I dont think thats the gotcha you think it is. :lol:
And I'm ok with introducing voting integrity measures. Why arent you?
Side note- Salon this time, eh? Careful, they might try to lie to you just like Mother Jones did.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#28

Post by dot »

Voter suppression laws are not voter integrity laws. Voter suppression laws based on fake voter fraud claims would be a major red flag to anyone that didn't already have their mind made up, but I'm not interacting with such a person here. Again, feel free to remain ignorant.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#29

Post by CHEEZY17 »

dot wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 2:50 am Voter suppression laws are not voter integrity laws. Voter suppression laws based on fake voter fraud claims would be a major red flag to anyone that didn't already have their mind made up, but I'm not interacting with such a person here. Again, feel free to remain ignorant.
I'm not the one who got duped by Mother Jones and a hack journo, chief. :lol:
Fact remains the database of fraud cases and convictions assembled there is concrete and legit and you HATE that.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#30

Post by Ricrude »

Animal wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:03 pm
CHEEZY17 wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 8:49 pm Fucking imbecile. Nowhere did I or anyone else say "Hey look at this list of fraud in 2020!"
Um, what exactly do you think that link proves? All it proves is they dont understand the study or theyre trying to misrepresent it. :lol:
Oh noes, it goes back to the mid-80's!! THATS THE FUCKING POINT! You know the database is simply meant as a compilation. Its not meant to be about 2020 like this hack is trying to imply.
So, take that bullshit somewhere else homeschool.
The data base is about fraud in general and nowhere does it ever claim to be about 2020. Now that you know exactly what the site is talking about what have you got to say now? Oh wait, you probably think thats fake too! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Youre so fucking thirsty its hilarious!
Look, here's the thing. This is all really simple.

If you think that George Bush stole the election from Kerry in 2004 with voter fraud, or if you think that George Bush stole the election from Al Gore in 2000 because of the Florida attorney general, or if you think that Trump stole the election from Hillary in 2016 because of Russian collussion...... then all of that is okay. Maybe it happened, or maybe it didn't. But its fine to speculate and throw out your conpsiracy theories.

If you think that Biden stole the election from Trump in 2020, then you should go to prison or at least face charges.

It makes perfect sense.
This...
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#31

Post by saltydog »

CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 11:03 am
dot wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 2:50 am Voter suppression laws are not voter integrity laws. Voter suppression laws based on fake voter fraud claims would be a major red flag to anyone that didn't already have their mind made up, but I'm not interacting with such a person here. Again, feel free to remain ignorant.
I'm not the one who got duped by Mother Jones and a hack journo, chief. :lol:
Fact remains the database of fraud cases and convictions assembled there is concrete and legit and you HATE that.
Congrats on your validation.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#32

Post by dot »

CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 11:03 am I'm not the one who got duped by Mother Jones and a hack journo, chief. :lol:
Fact remains the database of fraud cases and convictions assembled there is concrete and legit and you HATE that.
It must be so liberating to be that free of contrary thought that you can't even consider you were wrong or at best deliberately ignorant about that which you choose to know nothing about. Literally the only thing saying the multiple sources of information is wrong is your uninformed ass. The actual fact remains that the database spans decades and has few fraud incidents to offer to the year relevant to the thread subject. The actual fact remains that the organization takes the fake voter fraud rhetoric and turns it into voter suppression laws courtesy of the party that tried to steal an election. Enjoy remaining ignorant.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#33

Post by fouts »

Until there is a federal law requiring photo ID to vote in person and mail in ballots are 100% signature match there is a 50-50 chance the election was/is flawed. States fighting those rules are always the states that have more dead people voting and illegals voting-'vote Democrat and vote often' was funny at the time it was said,it's not funny anymore.
Florida sent out mail in ballots last election-even though it wasn't requested. My rental had ballots that had names of tenants from 3 years ago. USA elections are a joke and not in a funny way.
Maybe elections are not 'rigged' but they are certainly flawed.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#34

Post by CHEEZY17 »

dot wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:06 pm
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 11:03 am I'm not the one who got duped by Mother Jones and a hack journo, chief. :lol:
Fact remains the database of fraud cases and convictions assembled there is concrete and legit and you HATE that.
It must be so liberating to be that free of contrary thought that you can't even consider you were wrong or at best deliberately ignorant about that which you choose to know nothing about. LOLZ What exactly was I wrong about. Be specific please. And dont give me some Heritage crap. Theyre a political organization. Its what they do. You just dont like it
Literally the only thing saying the multiple sources of information is wrong is your uninformed ass. The actual fact remains that the database spans decades and has few fraud incidents to offer to the year relevant to the thread subject. Yes, it does and doesnt claim anything else. You and your hack journo tried to claim it was trying to validate 2020 claims. Its not. Its simply a assemblage of fraud cases throughout the years. You should be concerned that your trusted source mislead and duped you.
The actual fact remains that the organization takes the fake voter fraud rhetoric and turns it into voter suppression laws courtesy of the party that tried to steal an election. Enjoy remaining ignorant. "Fake voter fraud rhetoric" holy shit, After literally talking about over a thousand cases of fraud right here. Youre a clown dude. :lol:
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#35

Post by dot »

CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:29 pm LOLZ What exactly was I wrong about. Be specific please. And dont give me some Heritage crap. Theyre a political organization. Its what they do. You just dont like it
So you've gone from they're just a website / think tank to they're a political organization. Thanks for being specific for me and admitting I was right. And yeah, I don't like what they do, but why should I? They are helping to suppress legal voters under the cloud of fake voter fraud.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:29 pm Yes, it does and doesnt claim anything else. You and your hack journo tried to claim it was trying to validate 2020 claims. Its not. Its simply a assemblage of fraud cases throughout the years. You should be concerned that your trusted source mislead and duped you.
You clearly didn't read and defaulted to "it's a hack, it's fake!" Try taking the time to educate yourself as I really don't have the patience to hold your hand through another lesson. Tl;dr version for you: 1400+ claims of voter fraud, no catches mentioned but boy do they exist, the org takes its own claim and under the specter of 2020's "voter fraud crisis" goes around the country writing voter suppression laws for the party that tried to steal said election.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:29 pm "Fake voter fraud rhetoric" holy shit, After literally talking about over a thousand cases of fraud right here. Youre a clown dude. :lol:
And there it is again. You literally prove my point for me. You take the thousand cases of fraud and jump to believing the hype. Except that thousand has to be accumulated over 40 years. Drop that pure number on any individual election and you might have an argument for the myth of voter fraud. But drop the actual number per year, and it shows there isn't the crisis you want to pretend there is. I know you already proved you didn't read but:
In fact, as I’ve pointed out before, the database includes only one example of a fraudulently cast ballot from the 2020 general election. That’s not the only such case, mind you. Local news reports indicated 16 such incidents when I looked for examples earlier this month. If that were every demonstrated case and each of those votes was counted (which they weren’t), that would amount to one instance of voter fraud for every 10 million votes tallied in 2020. Being struck by lightning is four times as common.
I won't be surprised if you still can't grasp the point.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#36

Post by CHEEZY17 »

dot wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 5:09 pm
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:29 pm LOLZ What exactly was I wrong about. Be specific please. And dont give me some Heritage crap. Theyre a political organization. Its what they do. You just dont like it
So you've gone from they're just a website / think tank to they're a political organization. Thanks for being specific for me and admitting I was right. And yeah, I don't like what they do, but why should I? They are helping to suppress legal voters under the cloud of fake voter fraud.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:29 pm Yes, it does and doesnt claim anything else. You and your hack journo tried to claim it was trying to validate 2020 claims. Its not. Its simply a assemblage of fraud cases throughout the years. You should be concerned that your trusted source mislead and duped you.
You clearly didn't read and defaulted to "it's a hack, it's fake!" Try taking the time to educate yourself as I really don't have the patience to hold your hand through another lesson. Tl;dr version for you: 1400+ claims of voter fraud, no catches mentioned but boy do they exist, the org takes its own claim and under the specter of 2020's "voter fraud crisis" goes around the country writing voter suppression laws for the party that tried to steal said election.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:29 pm "Fake voter fraud rhetoric" holy shit, After literally talking about over a thousand cases of fraud right here. Youre a clown dude. :lol:
And there it is again. You literally prove my point for me. You take the thousand cases of fraud and jump to believing the hype. Except that thousand has to be accumulated over 40 years. Drop that pure number on any individual election and you might have an argument for the myth of voter fraud. But drop the actual number per year, and it shows there isn't the crisis you want to pretend there is. I know you already proved you didn't read but:
In fact, as I’ve pointed out before, the database includes only one example of a fraudulently cast ballot from the 2020 general election. That’s not the only such case, mind you. Local news reports indicated 16 such incidents when I looked for examples earlier this month. If that were every demonstrated case and each of those votes was counted (which they weren’t), that would amount to one instance of voter fraud for every 10 million votes tallied in 2020. Being struck by lightning is four times as common.
I won't be surprised if you still can't grasp the point.
Tedious poster is tedious
Dude, it literally lists the legal convictions from each state and never claimed to be anything other than a compilation. You, your hack website, author and source within the article said the website attempted to be something it wasnt. You got duped into thinking you had a "gotcha" about 2020 when all you did was learn the website was accurate and consisted of factual cases and convictions of various fraud over the years. Holy shit. Youve gone full retard. And yet you STILL keep trying to make it about 2020 like thats what the database was for. :lol:
Dude give it up; at this point its devolved to ridiculousness. You'll get me next time. Just take the L
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#37

Post by dot »

CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 6:48 pm Tedious poster is tedious
Dude, it literally lists the legal convictions from each state and never claimed to be anything other than a compilation. You, your hack website, author and source within the article said the website attempted to be something it wasnt.
That's what you want to believe. For you to sit there and claim Heritage has never claimed itself to be anything more than a compilation of court convictions is ignorant at best, duplicitous at worst. Literally gave you the evidence of their activity in multiple forms but because it goes against what you want to believe, you're going "Nuh uh." That's fine, your choice to keep your head buried in the sand. Doesn't make you more right, especially since you already admitted you were wrong.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 6:48 pm You got duped into thinking you had a "gotcha" about 2020 when all you did was learn the website was accurate and consisted of factual cases and convictions of various fraud over the years. Holy shit. Youve gone full retard. And yet you STILL keep trying to make it about 2020 like thats what the database was for. :lol:
Dude give it up; at this point its devolved to ridiculousness. You'll get me next time. Just take the L
Once again, you cannot comprehend my thought processes because they aren't simple enough for you. You keep thinking I thought Heritage was only cataloging 2020, when I specifically pointed out that their scope spans decades which dilutes their case count. Why did I do that? Because I already knew, which is why I even replied. The point being that makes the impact of such fraud to be negligible which flies in the face of what you and they are trying to push, voter suppression. You made a stupid post, I pointed out it doesn't have what you think it has, here we are round and around again. You can be forgiven for not knowing Heritage's ultimate intentions, cause lord knows you do not want to know anything if it doesn't help your worldview. But that doesn't make the facts any less true because you choose to not know them. Now if you want to attack the actual facts and disprove them, be my guest. I'd love to see you actually educate yourself on the topic instead of just default to screaming it's fake news like a certain idol of yours.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#38

Post by CHEEZY17 »

dot wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:11 pm
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 6:48 pm Tedious poster is tedious
Dude, it literally lists the legal convictions from each state and never claimed to be anything other than a compilation. You, your hack website, author and source within the article said the website attempted to be something it wasnt.
That's what you want to believe. For you to sit there and claim Heritage has never claimed itself to be anything more than a compilation of court convictions is ignorant at best, duplicitous at worst. Literally gave you the evidence of their activity in multiple forms but because it goes against what you want to believe, you're going "Nuh uh." That's fine, your choice to keep your head buried in the sand. Doesn't make you more right, especially since you already admitted you were wrong.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 6:48 pm You got duped into thinking you had a "gotcha" about 2020 when all you did was learn the website was accurate and consisted of factual cases and convictions of various fraud over the years. Holy shit. Youve gone full retard. And yet you STILL keep trying to make it about 2020 like thats what the database was for. :lol:
Dude give it up; at this point its devolved to ridiculousness. You'll get me next time. Just take the L
Once again, you cannot comprehend my thought processes because they aren't simple enough for you. You keep thinking I thought Heritage was only cataloging 2020, when I specifically pointed out that their scope spans decades which dilutes their case count. Why did I do that? Because I already knew, which is why I even replied. The point being that makes the impact of such fraud to be negligible which flies in the face of what you and they are trying to push, voter suppression. You made a stupid post, I pointed out it doesn't have what you think it has, here we are round and around again. You can be forgiven for not knowing Heritage's ultimate intentions, cause lord knows you do not want to know anything if it doesn't help your worldview. But that doesn't make the facts any less true because you choose to not know them. Now if you want to attack the actual facts and disprove them, be my guest. I'd love to see you actually educate yourself on the topic instead of just default to screaming it's fake news like a certain idol of yours.
Jeezus H christ. I NEVER said The Heritage Foundation was only the fraud database. Show me where I said that you fucking hack. In fact I wrote this:
cheezywrote wrote:Fuckin A.
The Heritage Foundation is about the most well known Conservative think tank and research outfit there is.
That doesnt change the fact that the database they created is based on actual court cases and convictions. Its literally just an assemblage of fraud cases in the USA. If you want to read more into it then I suppose thats up to you.
It also doesnt change the fact that you got lied to by Mother Jones and that hack in the article.
Ive been on this board for 20 fucking years and you think I've never used the research or studies from one of the best and most well known conservative organizations there is? GFY with that shit. Although RD is the one who found that link. Thanks RD!
Youre a disingenuous hack trying to obfuscate and deflect to save face because you got duped.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#39

Post by Geist »

CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:33 pm
dot wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:11 pm
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 6:48 pm Tedious poster is tedious
Dude, it literally lists the legal convictions from each state and never claimed to be anything other than a compilation. You, your hack website, author and source within the article said the website attempted to be something it wasnt.
That's what you want to believe. For you to sit there and claim Heritage has never claimed itself to be anything more than a compilation of court convictions is ignorant at best, duplicitous at worst. Literally gave you the evidence of their activity in multiple forms but because it goes against what you want to believe, you're going "Nuh uh." That's fine, your choice to keep your head buried in the sand. Doesn't make you more right, especially since you already admitted you were wrong.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 6:48 pm You got duped into thinking you had a "gotcha" about 2020 when all you did was learn the website was accurate and consisted of factual cases and convictions of various fraud over the years. Holy shit. Youve gone full retard. And yet you STILL keep trying to make it about 2020 like thats what the database was for. :lol:
Dude give it up; at this point its devolved to ridiculousness. You'll get me next time. Just take the L
Once again, you cannot comprehend my thought processes because they aren't simple enough for you. You keep thinking I thought Heritage was only cataloging 2020, when I specifically pointed out that their scope spans decades which dilutes their case count. Why did I do that? Because I already knew, which is why I even replied. The point being that makes the impact of such fraud to be negligible which flies in the face of what you and they are trying to push, voter suppression. You made a stupid post, I pointed out it doesn't have what you think it has, here we are round and around again. You can be forgiven for not knowing Heritage's ultimate intentions, cause lord knows you do not want to know anything if it doesn't help your worldview. But that doesn't make the facts any less true because you choose to not know them. Now if you want to attack the actual facts and disprove them, be my guest. I'd love to see you actually educate yourself on the topic instead of just default to screaming it's fake news like a certain idol of yours.
Jeezus H christ. I NEVER said The Heritage Foundation was only the fraud database. Show me where I said that you fucking hack. In fact I wrote this:
cheezywrote wrote:Fuckin A.
The Heritage Foundation is about the most well known Conservative think tank and research outfit there is.
That doesnt change the fact that the database they created is based on actual court cases and convictions. Its literally just an assemblage of fraud cases in the USA. If you want to read more into it then I suppose thats up to you.
It also doesnt change the fact that you got lied to by Mother Jones and that hack in the article.
Ive been on this board for 20 fucking years and you think I've never used the research or studies from one of the best and most well known conservative organizations there is? GFY with that shit. Although RD is the one who found that link. Thanks RD!
Youre a disingenuous hack trying to obfuscate and deflect to save face because you got duped.
Says the dupe as he dupes along dupedly.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#40

Post by dot »

CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:33 pm Jeezus H christ. I NEVER said The Heritage Foundation was only the fraud database. Show me where I said that you fucking hack. In fact I wrote this:
cheezywrote wrote:Fuckin A.

The Heritage Foundation is about the most well known Conservative think tank and research outfit there is.
That doesnt change the fact that the database they created is based on actual court cases and convictions. Its literally just an assemblage of fraud cases in the USA. If you want to read more into it then I suppose thats up to you.
It also doesnt change the fact that you got lied to by Mother Jones and that hack in the article.
That's not all you wrote, but it would take someone being honest about things to admit that. Repeatedly, you protested that the website is just that, a website, independent, no relation to anything in any way whatsoever. Pointing out that their database claims presented with no catches when catches exist, used in conjunction with the fake voter fraud claims as noted in the reports that you so desperately want to discard without having read, and a drive to suppress voting in the country as being related to each other has clearly upset you. Are you mad cause you didn't know what you were on the side of? Or just mad that I made you aware?
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:33 pm Ive been on this board for 20 fucking years and you think I've never used the research or studies from one of the best and most well known conservative organizations there is? GFY with that shit. Although RD is the one who found that link. Thanks RD!
Youre a disingenuous hack trying to obfuscate and deflect to save face because you got duped.
Once again, wanting your misconceptions about me and Heritage to be fact does not make them fact. Sorry that you can't think on multiple tracks. Must suck to be you.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#41

Post by CHEEZY17 »

dot wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:59 pm
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:33 pm Jeezus H christ. I NEVER said The Heritage Foundation was only the fraud database. Show me where I said that you fucking hack. In fact I wrote this:
cheezywrote wrote:Fuckin A.

The Heritage Foundation is about the most well known Conservative think tank and research outfit there is.
That doesnt change the fact that the database they created is based on actual court cases and convictions. Its literally just an assemblage of fraud cases in the USA. If you want to read more into it then I suppose thats up to you.
It also doesnt change the fact that you got lied to by Mother Jones and that hack in the article.
That's not all you wrote, but it would take someone being honest about things to admit that. Repeatedly, you protested that the website is just that, a website, independent, no relation to anything in any way whatsoever. Pointing out that their database claims presented with no catches when catches exist, used in conjunction with the fake voter fraud claims as noted in the reports that you so desperately want to discard without having read, and a drive to suppress voting in the country as being related to each other has clearly upset you. Are you mad cause you didn't know what you were on the side of? Or just mad that I made you aware?
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 7:33 pm Ive been on this board for 20 fucking years and you think I've never used the research or studies from one of the best and most well known conservative organizations there is? GFY with that shit. Although RD is the one who found that link. Thanks RD!
Youre a disingenuous hack trying to obfuscate and deflect to save face because you got duped.
Once again, wanting your misconceptions about me and Heritage to be fact does not make them fact. Sorry that you can't think on multiple tracks. Must suck to be you.
OK, so show me then, you fucking lying hack. Show me exactly where I said Heritage was only the fraud database. Should be easy, right?
I'm the one that tried to clarify with YOU with these words:
cheezy wrote:The Heritage Foundation is about the most well known Conservative think tank and research outfit there is.
So go ahead. Show me where I said its only the database. I'll wait. Otherwise, enjoy your hack-i-ness
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#42

Post by dot »

CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:13 pm OK, so show me then, you fucking lying hack. Show me exactly where I said Heritage was only the fraud database. Should be easy, right?
Not what I said, but I get that you want to set up a strawman.
Repeatedly, you protested that the website is just that, a website, independent, no relation to anything in any way whatsoever. Pointing out that their database claims presented with no catches when catches exist, used in conjunction with the fake voter fraud claims as noted in the reports that you so desperately want to discard without having read, and a drive to suppress voting in the country as being related to each other has clearly upset you.
As for what you requested:
CHEEZY17 wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 8:49 pm You know the database is simply meant as a compilation.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:06 pm Its a database about fraud. Its really that simple. Its not meant to be about anything else.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:16 pm The entire thread is simply about fraud in general; the same with the database.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:03 am Its literally just an assemblage of fraud cases in the USA.
Each time saying there's nothing more to it than presenting the data. Totally not about anything else. Despite what was posted to the contrary which you screamed over.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:13 pm I'm the one that tried to clarify with YOU with these words:
cheezy wrote:The Heritage Foundation is about the most well known Conservative think tank and research outfit there is.
So go ahead. Show me where I said its only the database. I'll wait. Otherwise, enjoy your hack-i-ness
It took me to tell you there was more to Heritage than just the website, but you curiously did not want to hear about that and called it fake. Now here you are claiming that you told me. Hilarious.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#43

Post by Animal »

dot wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:36 pm
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:13 pm OK, so show me then, you fucking lying hack. Show me exactly where I said Heritage was only the fraud database. Should be easy, right?
Not what I said, but I get that you want to set up a strawman.
Repeatedly, you protested that the website is just that, a website, independent, no relation to anything in any way whatsoever. Pointing out that their database claims presented with no catches when catches exist, used in conjunction with the fake voter fraud claims as noted in the reports that you so desperately want to discard without having read, and a drive to suppress voting in the country as being related to each other has clearly upset you.
As for what you requested:
CHEEZY17 wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 8:49 pm You know the database is simply meant as a compilation.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:06 pm Its a database about fraud. Its really that simple. Its not meant to be about anything else.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:16 pm The entire thread is simply about fraud in general; the same with the database.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:03 am Its literally just an assemblage of fraud cases in the USA.
Each time saying there's nothing more to it than presenting the data. Totally not about anything else. Despite what was posted to the contrary which you screamed over.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:13 pm I'm the one that tried to clarify with YOU with these words:
cheezy wrote:The Heritage Foundation is about the most well known Conservative think tank and research outfit there is.
So go ahead. Show me where I said its only the database. I'll wait. Otherwise, enjoy your hack-i-ness
It took me to tell you there was more to Heritage than just the website, but you curiously did not want to hear about that and called it fake. Now here you are claiming that you told me. Hilarious.
try separating the data base from the group that assembled it. the data base is nothing more than a data base. The group is more than the data base that they assembled. maybe that will help you understand.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#44

Post by CHEEZY17 »

dot wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:36 pm
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:13 pm OK, so show me then, you fucking lying hack. Show me exactly where I said Heritage was only the fraud database. Should be easy, right?
Not what I said, but I get that you want to set up a strawman.
Repeatedly, you protested that the website is just that, a website, independent, no relation to anything in any way whatsoever. Pointing out that their database claims presented with no catches when catches exist, used in conjunction with the fake voter fraud claims as noted in the reports that you so desperately want to discard without having read, and a drive to suppress voting in the country as being related to each other has clearly upset you.
As for what you requested:
CHEEZY17 wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 8:49 pm You know the database is simply meant as a compilation.
Yes. Thats what the data base is. A compilation.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:06 pm Its a database about fraud. Its really that simple. Its not meant to be about anything else.
Yep. Thats what that page is: a data base about fraud; nothing more and nothing less.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:16 pm The entire thread is simply about fraud in general; the same with the database.
Yes. Thats what the database is.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:03 am Its literally just an assemblage of fraud cases in the USA.
Yes. Thats what the data base does you disingenuous hack.
Each time saying there's nothing more to it than presenting the data. Totally not about anything else. Despite what was posted to the contrary which you screamed over.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:13 pm I'm the one that tried to clarify with YOU with these words:
cheezy wrote:The Heritage Foundation is about the most well known Conservative think tank and research outfit there is.
So go ahead. Show me where I said its only the database. I'll wait. Otherwise, enjoy your hack-i-ness
It took me to tell you there was more to Heritage than just the website, but you curiously did not want to hear about that and called it fake. Now here you are claiming that you told me. Hilarious.
This is patently ridiculous. Holy shit. You really dont even know what youre arguing at this point. :lol:
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#45

Post by dot »

Animal wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:41 pm try separating the data base from the group that assembled it. the data base is nothing more than a data base. The group is more than the data base that they assembled. maybe that will help you understand.
Except you can't do that when it's put together and utilized for referenced nefarious means. Just because you want to split them up does not make them independent nor does it excuse what the reporting says they're using it for, especially when they're the same organization on both counts. Let's give you an analogy, if say a political candidate publishes personal address information of a critic or opponent, and then that opponent suffers an attack as a result of said publishing by a follower or supporter, would you consider the two things isolated and unconnected? Be honest. Follow up if you have an answer.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:49 pm This is patently ridiculous. Holy shit. You really dont even know what youre arguing at this point. :lol:
If you can't follow along because it's too complicated for your simple brain, then why are you protesting so much? Literally all I did was point out how Heritage weaponizes its findings along with fake voter fraud claims to manifest voter suppression laws via the party that tried to steal an election. You blew up over that. If you can't follow along, no wonder you think January 6 was no big deal.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#46

Post by Animal »

dot wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:14 pm
Animal wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:41 pm try separating the data base from the group that assembled it. the data base is nothing more than a data base. The group is more than the data base that they assembled. maybe that will help you understand.
Except you can't do that when it's put together and utilized for referenced nefarious means. Just because you want to split them up does not make them independent nor does it excuse what the reporting says they're using it for, especially when they're the same organization on both counts. Let's give you an analogy, if say a political candidate publishes personal address information of a critic or opponent, and then that opponent suffers an attack as a result of said publishing by a follower or supporter, would you consider the two things isolated and unconnected? Be honest. Follow up if you have an answer.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:49 pm This is patently ridiculous. Holy shit. You really dont even know what youre arguing at this point. :lol:
If you can't follow along because it's too complicated for your simple brain, then why are you protesting so much? Literally all I did was point out how Heritage weaponizes its findings along with fake voter fraud claims to manifest voter suppression laws via the party that tried to steal an election. You blew up over that. If you can't follow along, no wonder you think January 6 was no big deal.
the data base they publish are simply a list of known criminal acts involving voting. I'm not sure how you make that nefarious or not nefarious. I can't imagine why they would pick and choose which illegal voting cases to include or exclude in order to support their position. the entire point of their position is to prove that there are examples of fraudulent voting which can be documented by real criminal cases.

I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make about publishing personal addresses for political opponents.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#47

Post by dot »

Animal wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:27 pm the data base they publish are simply a list of known criminal acts involving voting. I'm not sure how you make that nefarious or not nefarious. I can't imagine why they would pick and choose which illegal voting cases to include or exclude in order to support their position. the entire point of their position is to prove that there are examples of fraudulent voting which can be documented by real criminal cases.

I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make about publishing personal addresses for political opponents.
It's an analogy for why the two things cannot be separated. Are you also choosing to be unaware of Heritage's aims in pushing voter suppression, despite that being featured several times here in the various protests? Again, because you didn't want to read the material, a tl;dr version. Heritage builds voter fraud conviction database, boasts 1400+ cases, leaves out the catch that the majority of those do not pertain to the recent much false disputed election cycle, Heritage takes said false voter fraud claims and uses that and database as basis to push voter suppression laws across the country ironically via the party that tried to steal said election based on aforementioned false voter fraud claims. Pointing out those ties made someone mad.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#48

Post by CHEEZY17 »

dot wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:14 pm
Animal wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:41 pm try separating the data base from the group that assembled it. the data base is nothing more than a data base. The group is more than the data base that they assembled. maybe that will help you understand.
Except you can't do that when it's put together and utilized for referenced nefarious means. Just because you want to split them up does not make them independent nor does it excuse what the reporting says they're using it for, especially when they're the same organization on both counts. Let's give you an analogy, if say a political candidate publishes personal address information of a critic or opponent, and then that opponent suffers an attack as a result of said publishing by a follower or supporter, would you consider the two things isolated and unconnected? Be honest. Follow up if you have an answer.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:49 pm This is patently ridiculous. Holy shit. You really dont even know what youre arguing at this point. :lol:
If you can't follow along because it's too complicated for your simple brain, then why are you protesting so much? Literally all I did was point out how Heritage weaponizes its findings along with fake voter fraud claims to manifest voter suppression laws via the party that tried to steal an election. You blew up over that. If you can't follow along, no wonder you think January 6 was no big deal.
Look, I'll make it very simple for you because you have shown throughout this thread you are completely incapable of discerning the difference:
The Heritage Foundation is a Conservative organization. Its a well known think tank and research operation that produces papers, articles, studies and various other forms of informational data useful for promoting conservatism. Its what they do; its their entire focus.
One of the things they produced is that voter and election fraud database. Its simply a compilation. You can use it or interpret however you want but that doesnt change the fact it, in and of itself, is simply a compilation of cases and convictions. And once again, it wasnt meant to focus on 2020 you abject moron.
One is the organization as a whole. The other is a tool produced BY the organization.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#49

Post by dot »

CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:49 pm Look, I'll make it very simple for you because you have shown throughout this thread you are completely incapable of discerning the difference:
The Heritage Foundation is a Conservative organization. Its a well known think tank and research operation that produces papers, articles, studies and various other forms of informational data useful for promoting conservatism. Its what they do; its their entire focus.
No it's not, as has been repeatedly demonstrated. Unless you want to go on the record as voter suppression is a conservative tenet or goal.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:49 pm One of the things they produced is that voter and election fraud database. Its simply a compilation. You can use it or interpret however you want but that doesnt change the fact it, in and of itself, is simply compilation of cases and convictions. And once again, it wasnt meant to focus on 2020 you abject moron.
One is the organization as a whole. The other is a tool produced BY the organization.
It was when you wanted to float that connection. When challenged on that, you didn't like it and wanted to pretend it's its own thing and thus cannot be questioned. From there, it gets too complicated for you to follow along as you've repeatedly demonstrated. I'd lay it out (again) but there's no point when you refuse to follow along because it's not simple enough for you.
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Re: Rigged elections don't happen in the US of A...

#50

Post by CHEEZY17 »

dot wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 10:04 pm
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:49 pm Look, I'll make it very simple for you because you have shown throughout this thread you are completely incapable of discerning the difference:
The Heritage Foundation is a Conservative organization. Its a well known think tank and research operation that produces papers, articles, studies and various other forms of informational data useful for promoting conservatism. Its what they do; its their entire focus.
No it's not, as has been repeatedly demonstrated. Unless you want to go on the record as voter suppression is a conservative tenet or goal.
CHEEZY17 wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 9:49 pm One of the things they produced is that voter and election fraud database. Its simply a compilation. You can use it or interpret however you want but that doesnt change the fact it, in and of itself, is simply compilation of cases and convictions. And once again, it wasnt meant to focus on 2020 you abject moron.
One is the organization as a whole. The other is a tool produced BY the organization.
It was when you wanted to float that connection. When challenged on that, you didn't like it and wanted to pretend it's its own thing and thus cannot be questioned. From there, it gets too complicated for you to follow along as you've repeatedly demonstrated. I'd lay it out (again) but there's no point when you refuse to follow along because it's not simple enough for you.
I cant do it anymore homeschool, you go ahead and believe what you want to believe.
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."
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